[Solaar]

Ok, apologies firstly while I dust myself off and reintroduce myself to some of you around here. I'm Solaar, and I've been here years ^^

Ok, that outta the way, I need some help/advice.

It's time my scruffy hand-written 230+ page horror novel was written up and submitted to publishers/authors/whoever, but I've forgotten all my training from my youth (back when I wrote all the time trying to be an author!). I've booted up MS Word (crica 1965 edition) and am I right in thinking that it should all be double-spaced lines...?

And is it best just to write the first chapter or first few sample pages??

I'm sure all this has been covered in other threads, but I'm literally out the door to work and it's quicker for me to bug you guys :)

Ok, thanks in advance!!

Solaar
teach this old dog new tricks

[goldhawk]

Ok, apologies firstly while I dust myself off and reintroduce myself to some of you around here. I'm Solaar, and I've been here years ^^

Pleased to meet you.

Ok, that outta the way, I need some help/advice.

Gildor was silent for a moment. 'I do not like this news,' he said at last. 'That Gandalf should be late, does not bode well. But it is said: Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger. The choice is yours: to go or wait.'

'And it is also said,' answered Frodo: 'Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes.'

'Is it indeed?' laughed Gildor. 'Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill.'

It's time my scruffy hand-written 230+ page horror novel was written up and submitted to publishers/authors/whoever, but I've forgotten all my training from my youth (back when I wrote all the time trying to be an author!). I've booted up MS Word (crica 1965 edition) and am I right in thinking that it should all be double-spaced lines...?

Double-spaced lines, one inch margins, a serif font Times or Courier, ragged right edge. Each publisher has its own preferences so be prepared to change things. :)

And is it best just to write the first chapter or first few sample pages??

I would do the whole thing. You're going to have to sooner or later. And though most publishers just want to see the first three chapters with any solicitation, each has its own preferences. Not being prepared for unusual requests never looks good.

I'm sure all this has been covered in other threads, but I'm literally out the door to work and it's quicker for me to bug you guys :)

Ok, thanks in advance!!

Solaar
teach this old dog new tricks

I thought we were teaching an old dog old tricks. ;)

[kmtolan]

Solaar,

Like a hesitant swimmer putting a toe in, my recommendation is that you first start with a couple of pages - and prepare for a good constructive pounding. The first thing you need to check is how far along on the "basics" of writing you are before worrying about anything else. The basics alone will kill you with an editor, so you want to get that right. Here are the common problems I've seen that are one-way trips to the circular file:

1. Too much narration - the "show vs tell" bit. A tendency to say "She was mad" vs "She slammed a fist down on the table."

2. Attempting too much back story too soon. Drowning the reader with unfamiliar places and terms that have no meaning to them yet.

3. Poor sentence construction - basic grammar. Read it out loud. Sound awkward then it probably is. Leaves you gasping then probably too long. Also things like "I don't know." He said.

4. Passive voice. "It was going to be a hard climb." vs "The climb was hard."

5. Patterns - using too many "then" or "had" or other favorite word.

6. Point of View (POV) - Not staying consistent. Jumping into other heads with each other paragraph.

7. Pacing killers - Watering down action scenes with flashbacks or way too much narrative.

Lots of tricks and traps you need to plow through, but the good part is this can be done in just a few pages worth of example on your part.

I would also point out that the best critique you can get is from a small reading group where everyone trades critiques. Either a local group, or Yahoo Groups can help there. If you go online, try and choose a small group that looks to be very active (not one post every so often). One that actually has a published author in it would be a bonus.

Good luck!

Kerry

[Dawnstorm]

4. Passive voice. "It was going to be a hard climb." vs "The climb was hard."

Grammatically speaking, neither is passive voice. Neither is active voice, either. The verb is the linking verb "to be".

Those people who think passive voice is a stylistic matter (a writer's voice that happens to sound passive) would probably call both passive voice.

The difference between the sentences, anyway, is that the first is about a future event, while the second is about a current event (both in the past - since it's past tense). The two sentences are not equivalent anyway.

[goldhawk]

1. Too much narration - the "show vs tell" bit. A tendency to say "She was mad" vs "She slammed a fist down on the table."

Although too much narration is a problem, showing everything can be too. I would say, "show conflict, tell everything else." For example:

She was mad. But she felt this was too much self-indulgence. So, she decided to get even.

In this case, telling she was mad is OK since it's her motivation.

Also, just saying, "She slammed her fist down on the table," is not showing; it's an infodump. Unless, of course, it's part of a conflict:

She slammed her fist down on the table.

"Ouch!" yelled the table. "What'd you do that for?"

The problem is that many writers think that conflict always involves violence, or at least, action. Not so. In "The Silence of the Lambs", Hannibal Lecter has only one action sequence; near the end of the story he escapes prison. But that is not why he is so memorable. It's his conversations with Clarice Starling that make him so. Good dialogue is conflict; good dialogue is showing.

In summary, show the conflicts, even the minor ones, tell everything else.

[Solaar]

Firstly, thanks for all the adive guys!!! Secondly, thanks for all the literary advice!! But... I think I'm pretty safe on that front. I've had articles and short stories published everywhere over the years, but it was into novels that I'm now trying to establish myself!

It's actually the page layout I was after, and thanks to you all you've reminded me about the inch spacing, jagged right, etc.

I am also after information about which publishers to solicit to. Or even an agent?? Have I gotta dust off my out-of-date Writer's Guide and dig deep again??

Please feel free to continue your conversation about grammer/descriptive/etc, as I'm sure there are other aspiring writers here that could do with a brush up (myself included), but also (anyone!) please add your thoughts on getting a novel underway with a publishers...

Myself - I'm going to type up the first few pages and send it out, and while those are being devoured (and hopefully not crapped out) by the publishers, I shall then continue to produce the rest of my manuscript!!

Solaar
always grateful

[kmtolan]

I am also after information about which publishers to solicit to. Or even an agent?? Have I gotta dust off my out-of-date Writer's Guide and dig deep again??

Please feel free to continue your conversation about grammer/descriptive/etc, as I'm sure there are other aspiring writers here that could do with a brush up (myself included), but also (anyone!) please add your thoughts on getting a novel underway with a publishers...

Myself - I'm going to type up the first few pages and send it out, and while those are being devoured (and hopefully not crapped out) by the publishers, I shall then continue to produce the rest of my manuscript!!

Solaar
always grateful

If I understand this last sentence, you are not done with the manuscript yet? If I misunderstood, then just ignore me. Otherwise, please do not send in anything to a publisher until your book is done and "good to go". Just about every publisher will wash their hands of you the moment they find out you're not ready.

Okay, that warning aside, right now I feel that your best bet in the fiction market would be the smaller presses. By that, I mean the independent outfits that do more e-book/POD than anything else. They are still taking on authors. You can get a quick list of the better ones from Fictionwise.com. Always check with the Preditors & Editors website on any publisher, remembering the golden rule "money flows TO the author - never from". Lots of scams and vanity presses out there masquerading as publishers.

Kerry

[goldhawk]

If I understand this last sentence, you are not done with the manuscript yet? If I misunderstood, then just ignore me. Otherwise, please do not send in anything to a publisher until your book is done and "good to go". Just about every publisher will wash their hands of you the moment they find out you're not ready.


In the OP, he stated the ms was hand-written. He still has to type it. But I agree. Get everything typed and copyedited before approaching an agent or publisher. Not doing so just makes you look sloppy and lazy. :)

[Solaar]

Thanks goldhawk, and especially kmtolan for the helpful advice!! I know the dangers of vanity presses, and shall avoid them. I have confidence in my ability, but if I don't get a publisher/agent to accept and like it, I'll carry on with my day job and keep those rewrites coming.

Stay tuned for more details!!

Solaar
off to type