[Mithfânion]

Who does it best? It's said that medieval style world, European middle ages worlds that you find in Feist, Martin and Hobb are oft used in Fantasy. The above three are the ones I've read sofar that had the best of such world. I'm told Paul Kearney also does this quite well and Tad Williams in M,S&T as well.

What are, in your opinion, the worlds that had that particular feel you could connect to, that may even made you want to be there? My favorite medieval-style world would be the Six Duchies by Hobb.

[Barbarossa]

Hmm Feist isn't really middle age, more 16th or 17th century like. It's also not very convincing to me. For one thing it all runs to smooth.

Hobb is good because she isn't too close to any medivial concept. she actually is fairly original in her world building.

Martin is fairly close to 15th century England and he does it very well.

Quite good is Kate Elliot who bases her Crown of stars on 10th century Germany very closely but with nice twists.

Memory Sorrow and Thorn by Williams are good but not so much for the world buildin imho. While based on early medival Britain a lot it is too generic for my taste.

A very good use of medival Provence you will find in G.G. Kay's sonf for Arbonne.

[Mithfânion]

Yes, I guess you have a point there about Feist. It gave that post-medieval feeling though.

[This message has been edited by Mithfânion (edited February 18, 2002).]

[SusF]

MacCaffery's Pern was pretty cool for a pre-industrial society.

MZB's Darkover was interestingly built, the various eras.

Let's not leave out Frizt Lieber. Very medieval feel to his books.

Susan

[Qin]

The only writer in the fantasy genre that I've come upon who comes even close to reflecting the Middle Ages is George Martin. Although the world of Westeros is imagined, it reflects the attitude of a certain point in European history.

Most other fantasy (let's use Feist and Hobb for examples) depict worlds that I refer to as 'the sterilized medieval period.' I suppose we can (partially) thank Tolkien for this sterilization.

Admittedly, it's hard to really reflect a period in history when there are rumors of dragons, undead kings, zombies, and magic. To this day, I'm upset that Martin placed dragons into his novels. It could have been so much more.

[Mithfânion]

I'm glad he put the dragons in. His world could do with a little more magic (though not too much), not much less, which is the inevitable result if you take out the Dragons, who herald the return of magic.

Btw, didn't you recently state you'd never read any books of Hobb?

[Qin]

What the fantasy genre needs is less magic - the genre has the ability to be deal with internalized emotions, myths, and ideas. The potential is there, but few seem to want to take hold of it.

The genre has been watered down with endless books containing dragons and magic spells.
As it pertains to GRRM - although I was let down by the introduction of dragons at the conclusion of the first novel, I haven't stopped me from enjoying his series. Rather, I'm simply more aware of what it could have been - and how much more serious I would have taken it.

And I've read some of Hobb; Assassin's Apprentice is currently lying in the dark in the back of my paperback bookshelf.

But I digress.

If you ever wonder why the fantasy genre isn't taken very seriously, look no further than the first half of your post.

[This message has been edited by Qin (edited February 18, 2002).]

[Mithfânion]

Qin, that's not very fair. I stated that this particular series, which is one of my favorites, could have done with a little more Fantasy feel. It almost reads like a purely medieval war story, without being a Fantasy at all. I happen to enjoy several forms of magic in my Fantasy books, they can help inspire that sense of awe that I find lacking in most standard literature.

Yes, there are way too many books that have dragons and magic spells. These are often low quality books, or very easy reads. Martin's story is already excellent and certainly didn't (or will) deteriorate because of dragon presence.

As for the Fantasy genre not being taken seriously, who gives a toss? Am I supposed to care that some people disrespect the genre? Perhaps I'd be mildly concerned if I were an author, but as a reader, are we supposed to care what others think?

[Bardos]

<<As for the Fantasy genre not being taken seriously, who gives a toss? Am I supposed to care that some people disrespect the genre? Perhaps I'd be mildly concerned if I were an author, but as a reader, are we supposed to care what others think?>>

As a writer and reader, I can tell you I feel pretty much the same way.


Btw, why people have problem with "magic"? I think their problem is not "magic"; their problem is not being able to let their mind undestand (discover?) something that they don't know as a fact already.

To tell the truth, I'm fun of everything weird and not-normal. That's why hate cliches and fantasy worlds that copy our won. I don't want to read about the goddamn Middle-Ages, nor Ancient Japan!! If I wanted to read about them, I'd buy historical books, or historical fiction. I want to read about something new, and weird, and extraordinary.

That's what Fantasy is all about.

[saintjon]

Props to Bardos, well put. Still though, I like far more about Martin than the setting. I also think his dragons are pretty groovy (feeling Bruce Campbell-y today). I can find a bit of common ground with Qin, though, although I think his statement is misguided. What I mean is, although I love reading about dragons, it's only when they're given the treatment they deserve. I think things like Dungeons and Dragons, where dragons are very commonplace, take away the majesty and grandeur a dragon rightfully should have. I mean, in D+D there's even a different type for every sort of climate, in the Monstrous Manual there are about 30 different types or so, basically you're taking the creature that's like the soul of magic IMO and making it into a quick vehical for experience points. I mean, WHAT THE @#$%?!! BTW, my favourite dragons were in the Shadow War Trilogy, as I've mentioned elsewhere. I guess what I'm saying, it gives more weight to a fantasy setting if you're crazy magic and otherworldly beasts aren't as commonplace as those damn SUVs are to us. Guess that's why I like Martin's setting so much. Kate Elliot's got a good one, too.