[Zsinj16]

Now, as most comic book fans can probably tell, over the last two decades comic books have really improved and matured.
The Justice League is more three-dimensional now and it has dumped its annoying "Here I come to save the day!" attitude.
Superman may still need a bit of improvement, but he's become more three dimensional as well.
Batman has become more of a tortured, dark vigilante who seeks vengeance on psychopaths and criminals, whereas before (in the 50's, 60's 70's and early 80's) he didn't have hardly a shred of darkness in him.
Spiderman has become more sophisticated and adult in plot.
We have also created more of the excellent demonic, tortured, dark, and blood-thirsty heroes and anti-heroes such as Spawn, The Creech, Daredevil, The Punisher, and one of my personal faves, Wolverine.

However, there are two comic series that, at least from what I've seen, have stayed with the same boring, campy plot that they have had ever since they were conceived, and that is The Fantastic Four and The Avengers.
To be quite honest, I think these superheroes are wimps. I mean, they're afraid to kill a single supervillain, for Valar's sake!!
I don't know why they don't change these characters at least a little, so as to make it more interesting.
Does anyone here agree with me?

[fluffy bunny]

I have one thing to say- afraid to kill doesn't make em wimps. In fact, refusing to kill is harder than striking the killing blow. Anyone can throw a punch- it takes discipline to stop 2 inches from the opponents face/ to grant mercy. I respect them the more for it.

And they won't really change them too much- they've got a tried and tested method of making money. If they change em too much it'll be like x-men where u can't jump into an issue straight away and know what's happening, who's on what side, etc.

But that doesn't matter much- there's no such thing as a bad character, only bad writers. The constraints have been set- who can work within them the best?

[Ogg]

I have kids, small kids, and in reality it is getting very hard to find a comic I will let my small chidren see. They love comic books, but the general theam of blood letting, dismemberment and just all around meanness and bad spelling http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif really is not something I let them buy. Let me say again, they love superhero comic books, and often wear towels as capes charging around the house using their fire or freeze powers on the villian (DADDY)
I have a very hard time today finding something for them to read, so I often have to search the older comics for a decent comic.

[fluffy bunny]

Ogg- go and look up a comic called bone- plays out like a disney film with a good plot- ok not quite a superhero comic- but good fun and not violent.

Another good one is Herobear and the Kid- superhero fun (ok the teddy bear's the superhero).

[This message has been edited by fluffy bunny (edited April 22, 2002).]

[Warewolf]

Zsinj,

Okay, granted FF could use a little work. A consistent creative team would help. I am avidly looking forward to Mark Waid and Mike Wieringo taking over. It should be...umm...fantastic http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif

Avengers, on the other hand, has been one wild ride after the next since the relaunch. I mean, c'mon, you've got Wonder Man coming back from the dead, Ultron destroying an entire company, Kang launching a major assault on the Earth. What more can you ask for? These are the kind of widescreen, high octane stories that you'd expect in a book starring the big guns of the Marvel Universe (i.e., Captain America, Thor, and Iron Man to name a few).

Also, you mentioned Daredevil in the same category as The Punisher. Was this a mistake? Those two clash whenever they meet. Daredevil is definitely not bloodthirsty...

[MarcPhoenix]

Variety is the spice of life! I'm glad JLA has changed but also glad that FF has stayed the same.

Marc Phoenix
www.authorsden.com/phoenix