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Bond
March 5th, 2010, 12:32 PM
It's popular and people are playing it and I want to say good things about it since it is a fantasy RPG but there's a detail about it that bugs me: the Grey Wardens.

As far as I'm concerned they are just plain evil and the way the game builds them up rubs me the wrong way. Is anyone else bothered by the questionable morals espoused by the game?

Loerwyn
March 5th, 2010, 04:02 PM
The Grey Wardens are a non-corrupt force for the Greater Good who can and will do whatever it takes to ensure victory. They're "Grey" for a reason - As in their individual actions are "Morally Grey", but they are always for the best.
Blood Magic? They'll use it.
Demons? They'll use them.

Dragon Age is, after all, a Dark Fantasy and not your Happy La-Di-Da fantasy often used in games.

Bond
March 5th, 2010, 04:47 PM
Throw in Alistair going all teary eyed whenever Duncan the cold-blooded murderer comes up and how the Wardens are talked about with reverence and no I don't get it. The game used certain tried and tested techniques to sell its concept of a special society but underneath all the secret rituals and reactions of the NPCs to build an aura around the organization, it was still rotten at the core. So it all came off as phony. Lots of surface flash and talk of nobility but the group murdered innocents and the storytelling glossed over it so all the respect the creators seemed to want players to accord the organization was a turn off. I hate this trend where in an attempt to increase what has come to be seen as cool factor, creators will compromise fundamental principles then pass it off as something that should be considered acceptable. Ideas of moral relativity is starting to cross from relative to wrong being portrayed as right. A shame really because otherwise the rest was done well.

Loerwyn
March 5th, 2010, 05:38 PM
Are you playing the same game as me?
Where was Duncan a cold blooded murderer? (note: he isn't)
Where did the Grey Wardens murder innocents? (note: they don't unless you choose to)

Wulfa_Jones
March 5th, 2010, 07:35 PM
I've not got that far into it... but Duncan dies pretty early on so unless there are some revelations later in the game, Duncan seemed like a pretty decent chap.

The Wardens will pretty much do anything to stop the Darkspawn. The threat comes and goes, but they stay constant. Iíve not yet come across any suggestion that they have killed innocents and they seem pretty un-corrupt in comparison to the other organisations within the game world.

As I said, Iíve not got that far into it so this might all be yet to come. My characters act in the way that I choose for them which is based upon my own morals.

Bond
March 5th, 2010, 09:59 PM
Did everyone forget about Ser Jory, the guy with the wife and kids who was chosen as a candidate for the Joining?

Why was he killed again?

Loerwyn
March 5th, 2010, 10:03 PM
Ser Jory is killed because he turns upon Duncan, so Duncan kills him. It's self-defense PLUS Ser Jory would not be allowed to run away. If Duncan didn't kill him, someone else would have to.
:)

hippokrene
March 10th, 2010, 04:18 PM
Indeed, Iíve played it.

The Grey Wardens can be corrupt at times, but you can play a completely good Warden if you desire and some companions will love you for it. Others will dislike you for it.

As with Mass Effect, the most corrupt element of the organization is the player character. Iím not sure why BioWare game always have you become part of elite organizations only but only give you the experience of being a loner leading a small band of mercenaries or followers.

Morrigan and Leliana are two of my favorite video game gals. BioWare scored two for two with Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2 when it comes to interesting characters.

Loerwyn
March 24th, 2010, 09:49 PM
Doo-be-doo-doo. It's been a few days since I've finished Awakening (actually, I think it's almost a week since doing so) and I've had time to soak it in.
Eh sums it up.
It's got great characters (Sigrun <3) and a fairly good storyline, but it assumes too much. The Architect, for example, didn't make a lot of sense to me but I'm sure he would do if I'd read Dragon Age: The Calling. He's also flanked by Utha, a Dwarf Silent Sister & Ex-Grey Warden, who is a player in the same book. I don't remember her being explained in game at all, truth be told.
BioWare really had a lot to live upto after Dragon Age: Origins, and they have disappointed to a small degree with Awakening. There are a lot of quest related bugs that affected even me (and I tend to, for some reason, avoid a lot of bugs and issues) and they can be near-game breaking. Sigrun's personal quest, for example, never triggered for me and some items gave +100 approval; such as when I gave Justice a locket as soon as I recruited him.
From a gameplay perspective, your character just goes nuts. You get some seriously powerful talents (see Massacre for Warriors) and levelling is way too quick. I started off at 18, ended on 30. The quests are confusing, runeforging is forced upon you (if you don't take it, chances are you're not going to be able to enchant all your weapons and armor) and characters just end up too powerful. I think by the end I had ~100 Strength as a 2H warrior.
Once these bugs are fixed, and I'm not touching the game again until they are, it will be a better expansion. But until then? I say don't buy it. It's good, but the bugs are serious.

Bond
March 29th, 2010, 01:10 PM
I still think Knights of the Old Republic has the best story and characters of the Bioware games I've played. Sustained the suspense further into the story and characters seemed to have more to them. The ones following it are pretty much variations of the model established in that game.