[Miriamele]

I just finished Tad Williams' Otherland series tonight and I was wondering if anyone wanted to discuss it with me. I probably should have put it on the SF board but I'm more comfortable here, and besides I believe the series contains many fantasy elements as well. Namely, the skeleton of the plot is a very classic fantasy motif, the quest on which a group of bedraggled people who have been thrown together must embark to save the world.

For starters I should say that I really liked the series, although I wouldn't say it was perfect--it seemed to me that Williams was in a bit of rush to finish it. It could have benefitted from a couple more rereads on his part, but to his credit each book is extremely long and I'm sure he had deadlines. I felt that some sentences and phrases just sounded awkward. For example, at one point he said "The dust lay as thick as icing sugar." That doesn't even make sense--who said icing sugar is thick? It's just light and powdery. And there were some scenes (for example, the entire part in Dodge City) that I felt were unnecessary and only made the story drag. So it could have used some more editing. The second and third books dragged a bit--perhaps they could have been combined into one book.

But the story itself I found quite intriguing, the ending especially. I expected the story to be entertaining like Memory Sorrow and Thorn, and it was--and, like the former series, it had a fabulous ending, but it was also very thought provoking. It made me think about the very nature of life and death. Was The Other really alive, was it a person, even if it was only a brain? Were the "information beings" that Sellars created really alive? Were Orlando and Sellars really alive even though their physical bodies were dead?

My favourite part was Orlando's meeting with his parents in the Lord of the Rings simulation. It brought a tear to my eye. It was also particularly satisfying to see that Dread got a serious taste of his own very poisonous medicine.

I would have to say my favourite character was Christobel. She was so damn cute.
:)

In all, it was a great series that I'm sure will stick in my head for a long time. That's about it. I don't want to write any more before I know if anyone's even going to answer this. :)

[Cannon Fodder]

I thought the Otherland series was pretty damn good as well. It had such a great concept with so much potential. Also it was generally well written and had a wide range of very entertaining characters which always helps. These elements made up for what were some largish problems with the story. A lot of the series, especially the second and third volumes, did seem like padding, with all the different worlds they passed through and had adventures in, without much having effect on the overall plot. I didn't really mind this since all these subplots and wolrds were so interesting and entertaining in their own right, so it was good padding, which in my book is okay. I loved the twistedWizard of Oz world and the giant Gormenghastesque house. Plus I've read other stuff, no names mentioned, with far worse and far less interesting padding. In the final volume, which I thought was great, there were also some flaws such as the fact the majority of the major characters, after all the events of the series, did bugger all and really only had a negligible effect on the main story, some pretty big chance events- the timing of the cops finding Dread and some bits which seemed tacked on- the creation of the new life form, an interesting idea certainly, but it suddenly came out of nowhere. It did have however, some cool twists, good character development and many story threads came together really well in a way that was extremely satisfying. So, to sum it up, despite some flaws the good stuff about the series was so good I didn't care too much.

[vexed2002]

It DID really feel like the last book was rushed.. I would have loved it to continue for just one more book but at the same time i took a guilty pleasure in seeing everything come together.

Funnily enough, Christobel irritated the hell out of me as did Xabbu.

Favorite character was Orlando, bits that made my hair stand on end being either the end or (without going into too much detail) the Egyptian bit.. fantastico! :) Bits that made me laugh.. anything involving the Wickerd Tribe, Williams has hacker kiddies today down perfectly ;)

Strange parallel that just hit me being, Orlando+Sam Fredricks = Frodo+Sam. Or maybe the lack of sleep is doing strange things to me..

Thinking about it.. its probably time I re-read these..

[Miriamele]

It's funny Vexed that Christobel irritated you. Maybe I just understand little girls more because I have one of my own (plus I used to be one!). But I didn't like !Xabbu very much either. He was too serious all the time. I also loved Orlando and Sam, especially the Wicked Tribe.

I'm sure the Orlando+Sam = Frodo + Sam parallel was not accidental. It's too obvious. I mean, Orlando even ends up living in the Lord of the Rings simulation, and there were lots of references to the book within the story.

You're right Cannon Fodder--some bits at the end did sort of seem tacked on. The bit about Dread especially. I thought he would go out with more of a bang. And Calliope--we followed her throughout the whole story just so she could enter Dread's apartment and get a knife in the back? What purpose did that serve? Dulcie could have easily phoned the police on her own. I think Williams wasn't sure how to wrap up that part of the story so he just picked something. I have to admit, also, that I'm didn't understand exactly what happened to Dread there at the end, with all the women chasing him--what was that?

I think the bit about the new life form was added there to explain how Sellars had become involved with the Network. But you're right, it really wasn't necessary--a much simpler explanation would have sufficed.

It was still a great series though. Very imaginative.

[Ladijen]

I don't have much time, but I just wanted to chime in--I loved this series. I think that the padding and the way some of the story elements seemed to be odd (Calliope, Dread's end, the new life form) are a result of his writing style. I met him at a book signing, and he said that he doesn't necessarily know what is going to happen next, that he has the general ending planned, but the parts in the middle more or less create themselves as he writes. I like this style because I think that little extras (padding) fill out the world within a novel, even if they are not pertinent to the plot. And I don't mind following a character that eventually dies a meaningless death--that happens sometimes, after all.

[jfclark]

Otherland is a wonderful spectacle of the imagination. As far as huge "fantasy" epics go, it's one of the better ones.

But like most other huge fantasy epics, Otherland is also bloated and too self-indulgent. Much of the series, in particular the second and fourth volumes, seemed to reflect Williams' desire to include every one of his ideas for the novel--instead of trimming down and selecting the best elements, he used every last one of them. Did he need to have his characters journey through so many simulations, for instance? Did he even need to have as many characters as he did? The network is a fascinating creation, but there was simply too much that ultimately was irrelevant to the story.

I also found the narrative structure somewhat clumsy. Williams spends almost all of the first book assembling his Band of Heroes. They are almost immediately separated by a cosmic catastrophe. For all of the second book they struggle to find each other. When they do, they are quickly separated (into different groups this time) by another cosmic catastrophe. Another period of wandering exile follows, and then they are finally reunited for the Grand Finale, in which none of Our Heroes has any real role, because the fate of the network is ultimately decided by people outside the network. The second half of the series reads as if Williams decided that if he kept his protagonists together, he wouldn't be able to make use of all the ideas swirling around in his fiery brain. I think some severe editing would really have improved the series.

Don't get me wrong--I enjoyed the series. But why can't fantasy authors, even the good ones, exercise a little self-restraint? Williams is good, but he isn't Tolstoy or Charles Dickens.

[Miriamele]

You have a good point there, jfclark, saying that none of the heroes has a very big role in the climactic part of the book. While the Other is plummeting to Earth to kill himself, most of the main characters are just running around frightened. Especially Paul--I thought he would play a bigger role, but all he did is get his head slammed off a big rock and die. Kind of disappointing.

The only person that played a big role in the outcome was Sellars (aided by Beezle Bug). Actually, he played the largest role in the whole book because he was the one who got the characters together on the Network to begin with. Everybody else was really kind of secondary, except maybe for Martine. It probaby wasn't necessary to have so many characters, but they were all interesting anyway. (It's too bad that Sweet William was murdered, I liked him. :( )

[Miriamele]

:) Anybody else read this series?

[Eventine]

Yep, just haven't had time to post yet.
What I did enjoy:
Seing all the worlds
Most of the characters
The concept
The sense of mystery around Ava
The sense of mystery around the Other.
The sense of mystery around Paul Jonas (I was so sure he was dead after about 3/4s of the way through the second book. Kinda right...)

What I didn't enjoy:
The light being thingys at the end (it seemed a bit tacked on)
It was a bit drawn out (probably too many worlds, but seeing as I really enjoyed trying to work out where they were, it' not that bad)
The kids just waking up from the coma when the other died (the kids should have been getting into coma's as a malicious action of the Grail guys, further emphasising their evilness. Instead, it was just an unconscious mistake by a brain-satelite)

[Miriamele]

I agree with you on every point, Eventine. :)