[mlprine]

Hey everyone. I have been writing off and on ever since I was in the 9th grade. Several short stories and some poetry and my best friend and I have worked on a collaborated novel randomly over the course of our friendship. I have recently put that first work of ours on the back burner and set out on my own to write a new story. I am leaning towards a dark and gritty fantasy more focused toward a adult crowd than to all ages. My dilemma however is I am wondering what lines are okay to cross and which aren't in your opinions. I have read several dark fantasy novels and some are more explicit than others. The Night Angel Trilogy was one set of those books and I was very astounded at all of the lines that were crossed in it but I also felt that it added a sense of realism to the story the same with GRRM's A song of Ice and Fire series. Glen Cook's Black Company series is also a darker fantasy but not quite as graphic in my opinion. Just wanting to have a sense of realism to the book or books whatever the story turns into, and everyone knows nothing is ever just sunshine and flowers. Thanks for the help and your opinions on this.

[DailyRich]

If you mean from a reading perspective, if it's germane to the story and characters and not done for pure shock value, I don't have very many lines that can't be crossed. Life isn't all sunshine and roses, and I don't expect my art to be.

If you're talking about from a writing perspective, the line is up to you, with the same proviso as above -- make sure it's for the story's needs, not your own prurient interests.

[KatG]

If you're writing for adults, it's not an issue.

[Aneurin de Batz]

The lines you shouldn't cross are the lines you don't want to cross. And even that's not necessarily an absolute.

Well, that's my thought, anyway.

[goldhawk]

As DailyRich says, the lines you shouldn't cross are: Don't add gratuitous sex and violence for their shock value. You would only add such a scene if it was important to understanding your characters. Otherwise leave it out.

Also, sometimes it's better to hint at such a scene. Your readers' imagination is more powerful than any words you can write.

[Jon Sprunk]

As DailyRich says, the lines you shouldn't cross are: Don't add gratuitous sex and violence for their shock value. You would only add such a scene if it was important to understanding your characters. Otherwise leave it out.

Also, sometimes it's better to hint at such a scene. Your readers' imagination is more powerful than any words you can write.

Then again, there are books that cater to the gratuitous-sex-and-violence crowd, and some of them do quite well. One man's smut is another man's art.

[Sparrow]

Bestiality, probably a subject that doesn't make it into much fiction today... or perhaps there's a subgenre dedicated to it that I'm yet unawares?

[goldhawk]

Then again, there are books that cater to the gratuitous-sex-and-violence crowd, and some of them do quite well. One man's smut is another man's art.

Yes but if the OP was writing that kind of story, he wouldn't be asking what lines shouldn't be cross. But then again, he might. He would just want to make sure he crossed them all. ;)

[Jon Sprunk]

I've been looking for a way to include it in my WIP, Sparrow. You know, in a way that enhances the story without being gratuitous. :)

[SilentDan]

I've been present for a guest talk by a small publishing success who wrote about being a sex toy for an alien space cat. That's about nine kinds of lines crossed right there. Very good industry advice though.

I'm seeing a lot of "whatever line you feel sick crossing" and "don't do gratuitous sex and violence for the sake of gratuitous sex and violence" which I'm going to agree with... but see Sin City for an example that works (because of all the other stuff that's going on as well, I'd say, and the fact that it's dark noir genre stuff).

Ask yourself if it's necessary. If you can't cut it, then it's essential, and the book is probably better for it.

Adults are much more world-weary than most kids, save those brought up around violence, sex, drugs, booze, etc. Hell, a miserable childhood might even make for a very gripping read... if handled right, obviously.

So with adults, feel free to go crazy (but in the worlds of the guy in Tropic Thunder: you don't go 'full retard') and with kids, consider what they're used to and what they can probably handle.

And as always, less is more and more is less. :p