[kassimir funk]

Before you read this post. Let me say first that there will be some spoilers. But more importantly let me apologize for the tone of this post as I intend to rant and rave like an idiot. I have posted quite a few times and this post will deviate noticeably from all my previous posts. I only hope that you do not hold it against me.


Until recently, I had not been actively reading much fantasy due to my preoccupation with my english major and my many eccentric tries at establishing myself musically. Having that been said my hiatus has not set me back far.
I stumbled across this website, which I find to be a very good website, a few weeks ago. Examining the posts here I realized that there were indeed many authors whose work I was unfamiliar with. Martin in this case. I read a lot of posts regarding the author and I decided to give him a try.... now I'm going to start ranting.

I'm about 400 pg's into A game of thrones and it has occurred to me that this is utter crap. It's "days of our lives" with swords. It's a friggin soap opera! A circus act complete with midgets!
I'm trying to get into the plot and let's see..... someone is trying to kill the king!!! Well stick a feather duster up my arse and call me a peacock... WoW that's original. Let me guess the bad guys are going to succeed in killing the king... then they're gonna kill Mr. Stark then the Stark children are going to have to start a war to avenge their father. Is that dead on the money? Yes? No? Who friggin cares? Is this a fantasy novel or purely a murder mystery? This is the same rehashed story that's been told since the begining of time. Where's the originality?
How about the sex? The cheap, dimestore, meaningless, peep show, shock value, circus freak sex. That's all it is. It's pure shock value crap. And people are eating it up. It's so cheesy that it's not even worth arguing about. I doubt that even Martin takes it seriously. Which leads me to think that either Mr. Martin is a twelve year old boy, or, he is the world's most phenomenally awful lay. I don't know about the rest of you, but if I read about sex more than three times in a book I expect that, at some point, I will be aroused in some way. That's what sex is. It's supposed to be friggin arousing.... IT'S SEX!!! I think that fully 3/4 of the sex scenes could be summed up with "and then they screwed" and the story would not lose any momentum. The sex is neither offensive nor delightful... it's pointless. Regardless of all of that... it's the only thing in the book that keeps me awake.
I purchased the first three books because I will soon be taking an extensive trip out of the country and I wanted something to read while I was gone and now I'm kicking myself for having spent money on them. But I'm not going to get rid of them because rarely have I come across such a stimulatingly visual laxative!
The worst part is that Martin is an excellent writer in the fundamental sense but how he sells books is astounding to me because I would rather attempt the impossible by trying to chew off my own face than read another one of his books. This is coming from a guy who read a 150 page book on toilets and toilet repair. Is it too much to ask for a little magic? A couple of spells here and there? Maybe even some friggin fantasy! I have half a mind to mail the books to him and demand he give me my money back.
Is there any remotely original work out there? Ok... I know there is... but where oh where is it?
I now have a newfound respect for Robert Jordan. Give me all the crappy female characters and that crazy Nynaeve too. At least underneath the layers of braid pulling and ear boxing there is an original work. Caldazar... teach me the secret handshake and put me in the Jordan club... but do not make me read... one... more... page... of Martin.

I..... NEED..... HELP!!!!!!!

phew....<pant> <pant> <eye still twitching>

Ok there I'm finished for now. Sorry again about the rant but I'm really hot and bothered.

If there is anyone out there that feels like I do let me say this. I have just made it my own personal crusade in life to lift this genre out of the mud. I will write the tale of all tales and it will be grand!!! and no one will read it.... because it won't have midget sex http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/frown.gif

Sincerely yours,
Kassimir the angry poo flinging monkey

[Shadowen]

I could be wrong, but I'm sensing some resentment here... http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif

[e-Morgana]

So let me get this straight............. You don't like GRRM???

No........ don't hold back........let us know what you really think. http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[ChrisW]

hehe I really enjoyed reading that http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif.

Martin sooks!

[Bardos]

Well, each to their own. http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif I don't think that Martin is the Author of the Age --I haven't found that one yet! But I also don't think he's THAT bad.

Kassimir, I think I know what I actually bothered you. Everyone said that Martin is THE original author, but you read it and it was, ok, a normal story about a king, a kingdom, etc. Yes, it's NOT original, in general --actually, there are no "fully original" plots and stories; more or less everything has been retold. But Martin is refreshing within the fantasy genre. Jordan (who, of couse, sucks so bad, Cald ;p) is using the old, a-100-recently-told fantasy cliche about the boy who destroys the Dark Lord a la Sauron. Martin just threw the fantasy cliches (dark lords, dark lands, world savieurs, ultra powerfull mages) out of the window and wrote a story in a fictious world. No, it's not original, but it's refreshing. Plus his characterization is good, and I don't think you doubt that.

As far as magic is concerned, I agree with you more or less. A writer shows skill if he can you magic well. If he just makes magic disappear (or uses it a la deux ex machine whenever he likes) it's... oh, well, ok... The acheavement is to be able to handle "correctly" (whatever that means --you feel it; it's not explained) the magic in your world.

So, give him a try. Not thinking it's THE original story, but a fantasy story. That would be enought to satisfy, I think. http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Mithfânion]

Has Caldazar been changing usernames again? I demand an IP check! http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif

[ChrisW]

Damnit i've been exposed.Caldazar = Bardos! http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Caldazar (edited March 28, 2002).]

[Biter]

I agree with Bardos here. I read the first four books of WOT, and I enjoyed reading them. After lurking about this forum for a long time, I decided to give Martin a try. He became my favourite (fantasy) author instantly, and I couldn't bring myself to continue WOT. I discovered how unrealistic, unoriginal and well... I won't say more about WOT except that "Messiah coming to save the world from the Dark Lord" has been used a hundred times, and Jordan did nothing to improve it. Martin destroyed my view of fantasy as a genre, and he is now almost the only fantasy author I can tolerate. I agree that Martin didn't choose an original plot, but he certainly added a unique twist to it. And there is certainly much more to the plot than what you mentioned above.

And yeah... I still respect Jordan since he was the author who re-introduced to fantasy, but I dislike him intensly since most of his fans bash authors that are *not* Jordan.

[kassimir funk]

Bardos,

"Plus his characterization is good, "

Ok Ok you're right. Martin's characterization is VERY good. I'd even venture to say that he has some of the BEST characterization I've ever read in fantasy. Right now I think that Caitlin is my favorite character. She seems very real. Even the Stark kids have their own specific personalities.

I've calmed down a bit so I can converse better now http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif

SPOILERS
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The part that made me put the book down was where Caitlin arrives to meet her sister, Lysa. She gets there and the reader is introduced to Lysa's son ... whatever his name was. Anyhow the youth is obviously sheltered to an extreme and before things go horribly wrong you get the feeling that this boy of six is still "suckling at his mother's
breast" in the FIGURATIVE sense. Just the way the boy is portrayed is enough to give the impression. But apparently, that wasn't enough... we had to get it in the literal sense. At that point I actually laughed out loud and said "Why am I reading this?" I don't see the point of putting that in there. It's just goofy... it's silly. It's so obviously done for shock value that I find it insulting to my intelligence. It's as if to say that I, as a reader, am to stupid to figure it out. I can gather information on my own. I don't need a picture to spell it out for me. And to be frank, the story is not inherently disinteresting but it is not interesting enough to me to make me read through 3 books of this kind of thing. Either the author thinks us morons or he is being purely self-indulgent.
I do not find the material to be offensive really, I've read much more graphic things, it's just I dunno... goofy.
I want to be stimulated... and this story just isn't doing enough for me.

Let me make this comparison and see how it stands. It's like the trends in the music industry. We are fed things like Britney spears and N'sync and a lot more god awful crud that passes for decent hard rock, because certain elements are inserted that have mass appeal. Pretty faces or dark grungy rebellious people. It's all gruel for the brain. It's appealing on the surface only... and we eat it up. Scratch the suface and there isn't really much there.
I would say the same about a lot of the elements in this story. They're hooks, gimmicks, tried and true formulas for getting people's attention.

Am I making my point clearly?

[ChrisW]

but I dislike him intensly since most of his fans bash authors that are *not* Jordan.
1.
I totally disagree with that statement and I fail to see what you base it on.

2.
So you dislike him because of the behaviour of his fans? That is the worst reason i've ever heard!

3.
Are you saying that Martin,Eddings,Hobb etc fans don't bash other authors if they don't like them?

You Sir are a joke http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif.