[zizekpress]

I went into Waterstones today looking for 'All you Zombies' by Heinlein and it wasn't there. Barely any of his books were.

Then I look to my left and there's a huge dark fantasy section.

Is this the way the world's going? More vamp romance, and extinction for Heinlein?

Maybe there are just too many books being put out there nowadays, and one by one the greats are gonna be forgotten.

Does anyone else feel this is the way thing's are heading, or did I just pick a bad day to look for Heinlein?

[Hobbit]

Depends where you are zizek, but if it's the UK that's about right: very hard to get most Heinlein in the UK.

What sells is what's there, I'm afraid!

Mark

[Sparrow]

I went into Waterstones today looking for 'All you Zombies' by Heinlein and it wasn't there. Barely any of his books were.

Then I look to my left and there's a huge dark fantasy section.

Is this the way the world's going? More vamp romance, and extinction for Heinlein?

Maybe there are just too many books being put out there nowadays, and one by one the greats are gonna be forgotten.

Does anyone else feel this is the way thing's are heading, or did I just pick a bad day to look for Heinlein?



No, it's like that here too.
And for good reason. Heinlein's work was overrated during the golden years of Science Fiction, today it holds little interest for those few young readers actually into SF. Things haven't progressed in the SF field as some of us would hope... StarWars-StarTrek--and all those damn video game spinoff novelettes take up most of the shelf space in what has become a meager section in most bookstores. But we should feel lucky that we even still have a 'section' in the bookstore dedicated to SF. I fear that last half aisle will also be lost to us and SF will be relocated to a broom closet by the men's restroom... as it deserves.

[zizekpress]

Depends where you are zizek, but if it's the UK that's about right: very hard to get most Heinlein in the UK.

What sells is what's there, I'm afraid!

Mark

That's depressing.

Though running on from 'what sells', we're led to 'what gets promoted because something similar to it sold well last week.'

The key is, how can we get stuff like Heinlein selling again?

[zizekpress]

No, it's like that here too.
And for good reason. Heinlein's work was overrated during the golden years of Science Fiction, today it holds little interest for those few young readers actually into SF. Things haven't progressed in the SF field as some of us would hope... StarWars-StarTrek--and all those damn video game spinoff novelettes take up most of the shelf space in what has become a meager section in most bookstores. But we should feel lucky that we even still have a 'section' in the bookstore dedicated to SF. I fear that last half aisle will also be lost to us and SF will be relocated to a broom closet by the men's restroom... as it deserves.

Well, that broom closet better have some damn Heinlein, ha!

You're the first person I've met/seen/read that hasn't liked Heinlein...though I'll admit, i've never talked to anyone about him.

What is it you don't like? The writing? The science? I always thought he was actually one of the few sci-fi writers who was also a very good writer. I mean, he always seemed to put all the science deep into characters, whereas some other writers make you feel like everyone's just lecturing each other.

Having said that, some of his characters are a little too clever/quick-witted for their own good. It can be funny, but it takes out a lot of the danger/tension from the story when it's overdone.

[DuncanWatson]

You will find very few Authors books originally published in the '50s, '60s, '70s and '80s anywhere. The fact that you can find any is pretty amazing. SF has a shelf-life. It has to be relevant both in its science content and to society as it is now. Science has advanced quite a bit since 1950 (60 years!). The entire computer/micro-processor industry has come into being. Almost none of Heinein's work modern computers. Even that which was written in the '80's.

Fantasy tends to keep better though societal mores has advanced enough that it gets really hard to read fiction from the '50s as it is often quite misogynistic and even bigoted. Heinlein's writing is not free of either complaint, but try and read John Norman's Gor series and you will really see the changes.

All in all, publishers tend to push books that they recently acquired as they have a broader base of people willing to purchase them. It takes quite a powerful novel to still sell well 30-50 years later. Luckily for us, ebooks don't require printing runs and hopefully will start blunting this tendency to only offer the latest books published for sale.

[zizekpress]

You will find very few Authors books originally published in the '50s, '60s, '70s and '80s anywhere. The fact that you can find any is pretty amazing. SF has a shelf-life. It has to be relevant both in its science content and to society as it is now. Science has advanced quite a bit since 1950 (60 years!). The entire computer/micro-processor industry has come into being. Almost none of Heinein's work modern computers. Even that which was written in the '80's.

Fantasy tends to keep better though societal mores has advanced enough that it gets really hard to read fiction from the '50s as it is often quite misogynistic and even bigoted. Heinlein's writing is not free of either complaint, but try and read John Norman's Gor series and you will really see the changes.

All in all, publishers tend to push books that they recently acquired as they have a broader base of people willing to purchase them. It takes quite a powerful novel to still sell well 30-50 years later. Luckily for us, ebooks don't require printing runs and hopefully will start blunting this tendency to only offer the latest books published for sale.


I agree, some of the older sc-fi can be really jarring when you read it now. Example, if the book is set in the future yet has misogyny or racism, you can almost see what it really must've been like in the author's time. The fact that Heinlein writes about multi-ethnic cultures in a time when his country didn't yet have civil rights [i think he did most of his writing before '64, right?] must have made it almost impossible to predict how progressive the next 50 or so years were gonna be. If that makes sense...

And yes, we have high hopes for e-books too.

[DuncanWatson]

You're the first person I've met/seen/read that hasn't liked Heinlein...though I'll admit, i've never talked to anyone about him.

He is not the only one. I dislike Heinlein and so do some of my co-workers. His early writing is good but his political views are obvious and ham-handed in his plots. He is a product of his time and views women as inferior, and in fact most people as inferior. His later obsession with homes as forts with lye pits to dispose of bodies that were killed by the lethal force automated defenses. I would hate to be a utility inspector in his universe, it would be a job that needed hazard pay and a great life insurance policy. His later books get well into the creepy wish fulfillment sex fantasies as well.

I respect his early books as they were my introduction into SF as a child but I don't worship him as many seem to do.

[DuncanWatson]

I took a peek at his bibliography (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Heinlein_bibliography). His early work published before 1960 is easier for me to read, it holds up better. His work in the middle (60s, 70s) is not easy for me to read, I read it all when I was much younger but nowadays it doesn't fly. His later stuff (80s+) is basically crap and even when it was published was widely panned.

But I have to admit after re-reading Glory Road recently (within the last year) , I don't have the energy to try to re-read the old stuff to see how I enjoy it.

-Duncan

[DailyRich]

It's even tough to find Asimov in stores these days, and when you do, it's usually those series to which he simply lent his name and didn't do any actual writing (like the Caliban trilogy and the Second Foundation trilogy). Good luck finding the original Foundation books or the early Bailey/Olivaw novels.