[Evil Agent]

I've been reading fantasy for about 7 years now, and I started when I was 16. I've read some good stuff, and some not-so-good. Goodkind's "Sword of Truth" got me in the beginning (particularly since I had not yet read the Wheel of Time), but now I think it's pretty weak. I enjoyed Eddings' first Sparhawk series "The Elenium" because it was darker than his other work. I love "The Lord of the Rings" above all, because it is simply a literary masterpiece that cannot as yet be compared to anything else in the genre. I liked the Wheel of Time, but it slowed down around books 7/8. I believe it is back on track, however, and will get better. "A Song of Ice and Fire" is brilliant, and I am loving that series now. But I want to read some new stuff, and I want to read something dark. I'm not even sure if I completely understand the term "dark fantasy", but to me I imagine something realistic, slightly heavy but not dull or overly painful to read. Dark, but full of adventure and high stakes. I want to actually care what happens. What can any of you recommend to me along these lines? Any help would be great!

[Nevyn]

I not sure what people mean by realistic when they're talking about fantasy , with that off my chest I would recomend you try 'Robin Hobb - The Farseer Trilogy'.

It is all written in the first person and IMHO is some of the best story telling out there!!!

[Brandon]

check out C.S. Friedman's 'The Coldfire Trilogy'
and Michael Moorcock's Elric series

[DarthV]

Check out Raymond Feist's Faerie Tale. Pretty dark urban fantasy.

[juzzza]

Originally posted by elendil
I'm not even sure if I completely understand the term "dark fantasy", but to me I imagine something realistic, slightly heavy but not dull or overly painful to read.

IMHO, Dark Fantasy contains themes, characters and prose that is aimed at an older audience, I.E. not children. Having said that even so-called low fantasy or fantasy soap operas can contain quite graphic violence...

Dark Fantasy may tackle themes most fantasy fans may not find appealing, such as sex, the macabre and sometimes the plain obscene...

This is just my definition of the term, but I believe I write in this genre quite often and old Holbrook can provide you with excellent examples that would put hairs on your chest!!!

Somebody like Erebus, Hobbit, CAD, NOM or any of the other big guns can probably give you a better definition.

[Valada]

I think I know what Elendil means by "realistic" within fantasy. There can be a realism within the characters without the world itself necessarily being realistic. That is, good characters have flaws, or even streaks of "evil". And the "bad guys" are recognisably human, often with their own redeeming features. In other words, the characters are more grey than black and white. Good and evil are unclear forces, as opposed to more traditional fantasy, where we know very clearly who the good guys are, and also know that their attempts to beat the bad guys will somehow make the world a better place. When these things are less clear, fantasy becomes more "realistic" - think of most of the wars that have happened in our history... not too many of them are very clearly good vs evil, no matter what we'd like to think.

[kegasaurus]

What is good and evil?

I read somewhere that Eddings writes good v Evil fantasy (Capital E? Fruedian slip...), yet his 'good characters seem like self-indulgent bullies, whereas the morons who reside on the other side would have a case that they were pushed by these 'good' guys.

I dunno. Just a bit of spurious rambling that probably has no place in this topic.

[Valada]

We could spend ages trying to define "good" and "evil" and even debating their existence (in fact, didn't we do this in some other thread, sometime last year?), but when I used them in my previous post I was only using them because we all know what we're trying to say, I think. Does that make sense? In other words, I'm not trying to validate those ideas, or even define them, I'm just using some words that other people will recognise as representing certain concepts... makes it much easier to get my thoughts across! :)

[saintjon]

Man, if you likes your fantasy dark, check out Neil Gaiman.

Second the mention of the coldfire trilogy.

[Evil Agent]

Yep, that's pretty much what I mean by "realistic". In addition, I also mean that it takes place in a believable world. Obviously Fantasy has magic/monsters and other things that aren't usually thought of as realistic or believable, but I think that they CAN be written realistically, as long as they fit into the larger world. I want a story that, despite obvious impossibilities, I can effectively suspend my disbelief of! Realistic, gritty, dark, ambiguous. This is perhaps why I am enjoying the second chronicles of Thomas Covenant which I just started.