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choppy
August 25th, 2002, 01:32 PM
I saw an interview with Vin Diesel (star of the new action movie XXX) the other day and I was a little disturbed about a comment he made, but I thought it make for an interesting thread.

Basically he stated that we are now entering the "age of the reluctant hero." His position was that people don't want to believe in the noble "white knight" character anymore, because this kind of person isn't real. People don't do what's right because it's right (ie. the classical Batman palyed by Adam West). Vin stated that it's a lot more believable for a character to be selfishly motivated and just happent to be doing the right thing out of chance.

Do you agree with this? Is the age of the noble hero dying? How do you as writers motivate your heroes?

Forrest
August 25th, 2002, 03:00 PM
hi...first post...

I wanted to reply to this because I feel very strongly about the subject...

My favorite heroes are those that do good because they KNOW that it is good. A hero who doesn't purposefully seek truth and justice is little more than a walking accident, and not someone to look up too.

Imagine what something like Star Wars would lack if Luke accidentally destroyed the death star while searching for a gas station.

I think our society is trying to devalue the process of rationally thinking about values and acting on them purposefully, as a real hero would do. I rail against the idea of the anti-hero.

Anyway, my two cents!:)

Nice boards by the way. I'm a friend of Erebus' and I came here through his website, which mentioned he was a moderator here. Looks cool!:cool:

Nimea
August 25th, 2002, 04:09 PM
Run, Forrest, run! :D

Forrest, you said what I think.

:)

Holbrook
August 25th, 2002, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by Nimea
Run, Forrest, run! :D

Forrest, you said what I think.

:)

Damn Nimea, you beat me too it.

I will have to settle for "And that's all I am going to say about that"

But as to the question.

I like a multi layered hero. One that has his one agenda. It might not seem "good" to his companions and friends. In fact it could be down right evil in the short term.

I also like a hero to have a "past" A muture character when you meet him, not a young fresh faced kid from the farm....

I like complex characters plain and simple.....

Nimea
August 25th, 2002, 07:00 PM
Holbrook: :p

And yes, complex they should be.
And trying to be good and do good is complex and very difficult - so I want good heros, yet not the easy ones, the flat ones.

Sometimes you try to be good but your choices are tragic in any way . . .

Gagged Man
August 25th, 2002, 08:46 PM
I prefer the average guy off the street because he/she would be someone the reader may identify with easier (the human touch thing) but scripting them as a hero may be difficult.

Valada
August 25th, 2002, 09:08 PM
I think that Vin may be right, in terms of the sort of hero that is emerging in our world. But I don't agree with him when he says that we don't want to believe in the white knight hero. I would argue that we do, and that this is what is responsible for the resurgence and increasing popularity of fantasy. It fills the need in people's lives for a world where there are heroes who do good simply because it is the right thing to do. Goodness knows we don't see many people around us doing that anymore (if they ever did).

estranghero
August 25th, 2002, 10:50 PM
Well, I guess it's really not a question of heroism but of motivation. I once heard a philosophical argument that there's no such thing as a good deed because one way or another, we always want something out of it.

Now, I don't know if this argument (and Diesel's proposition) is true though in today's jaded, cynical world, that's a possibility. After all, the first thing in everyone's mind when a samaritan helps out is: What does he/ she want? And if a proven person really does things out of the goodness of his/ her heart, they're called saints. Look at Mother Teresa. Is she a saint or a human being doing good? Two sides of the same coin.

It's not that people aren't willing to believe in 'white knights' anymore but we've been bruised and battered by those who wanted us to believe in them but eventually let us down, i.e. parents, teachers, friends, lovers, leaders, etc. So as we grow up, we refuse to believe in goodness anymore. Valada's statement is so true that this is the reason for fantasy's resurgence, the need to believe in something.

This could be actually a good idea for a story: in a jaded world, who's going to believe in a character out to save it? (Like if Rand in WOT had to save everyone and everyone was too busy making a buck to listen to him.) ;)

kegasaurus
August 26th, 2002, 12:42 AM
What we think of as heroes are basically people cut fromthe same mould as villians. Both activley go out and push their values down the throats of others with no concern whatsoever the feeligns of others.

What Luke did to the Death star was tantamount ot mass homocide.

estranghero
August 26th, 2002, 12:52 AM
Hehehe hey Kega, remember those scenes in 'Austin Powers' the 1st movie, wherein they showed what the audience thought of as the 'dumb goons' were actually people with feelings, familly and friends, too? :D