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Brandon
August 27th, 2002, 03:07 AM
What I find really annoying about LOTR...

You know that scene where the the group of hobbits get off the road to hide under a tree, and the black rider gets off his horse and he's within arm's reach distance of them and he just sits there sniffing the air
Ok the justification is...wring wraithes are blind in this world or whatever, he is better able to find him when he's wearing the ring
Then why, in the very next scene is a black rider able to find them wherever they are in the forest and chase them on his horse to the fairy following on their tails like he knows exactly where they are, or where the ring is, if he's drawn to it so much why was he unable to grab it when it was within arm's reach, and then how were they able to chase them further etc.
I mean, exactly how powerful are these guys if they can't even get the ring when it's like 2 feet away from them? I think they really should have done that scene differently

someguy
August 27th, 2002, 02:15 PM
I dont think wraiths are blind are they? I think the sniff is kind of another sense. After all, what good would they be if the couldnt see. How does the Lord of the Nazgul do all that cool stuff in Return of the King if he cant see?

Brandon
August 27th, 2002, 02:38 PM
If he isn't blind then why didn't he grab the hobbits when they were right under him

someguy
August 27th, 2002, 03:06 PM
because they were cleverly hiding under the tree roots and the Nazgul didnt bend over far enough....I dont know, best I could come up with.

I understand where you are coming from though. I am willing to suspend disbelief when I watch a movie, but after that everything has to be consistent with that suspension of disbelief.

Shanoncia
August 27th, 2002, 03:14 PM
The Nazguls are indeed blind as by the definition of man but in their mind they can perceive images.. faint spirital shapes... Kind of like what Frodo could see in the movie when he was wearing the ring.

In the forest chase scene the riders didn't find the hobbits, the riders found frodo, because they were drawn to the ring he bore... the power of the ring engulphed him, surely the could see that!

It's hard to comprehend because we humans are not the undead... we see the physucal world with our eyes... who are we to judge sight-based actions of those who see the spiritual world with their hearts?

Tolkien purposely left this area mysterious... It's more creepy and unpredictable that way.

Any other questions? I'm a tolkien scholar! I'd be happy to answer! :)

Sammie
August 27th, 2002, 03:27 PM
I was under the impression that they percieved Frodo more clearly once he'd been wounded by one of their blades. I think i got this from the book, not the film, tho.

Shanoncia
August 27th, 2002, 03:39 PM
They stabbed him with a Morgul blade, that notches itself and leaves a fleck of poison laced blade in the body that slowly works it's way to the heart. Under teh influrene of the poisen one slwoly turns into a wraith... They can see their own sad kind, and and communicate like squeling pigs together... so in a way as Frodo became more like him tehy could faintly here his cries... and faintly feel tge ring power growing in him... as he faded from the view of man, his shape became clearer to the spiritually prone eye. :)

someguy
August 27th, 2002, 03:45 PM
OK, if the Nazgul can not see, then how the Blue Blazes did the Lord of the Nazgul swoop in, kill Theoden, and then sit there and chat with Eowyn. In fact, why have a mace at all if you cant see what you are swinging with.

It has been a while since i read the series, but does is say they are 'blind'?

Apparent contradiction perhaps...

Shanoncia
August 27th, 2002, 03:49 PM
ARRRRGGG! :mad: I just explained it!!! The don't see the physical universe they perceive the spiritual universe!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Theoden and Eowyn have spirits!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

someguy
August 27th, 2002, 04:00 PM
OK, then do they see inanimate objects? Can they perceive the wall that someone is behind? If so, and the wall blocks their 'spiritual vision', then it is really no different from normal sight now is it?

So, if they see living things 'spirits' and they see inanimate objects, eg a 'spirits' sword in hand, and if that 'spirit' vision is obstructed by inanimate objects, then they, to all intents and purposes, 'see' just like us.

This unassailable logic brought to you by Someguy. Stay tuned