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Werthead
May 5th, 2012, 08:52 AM
The TV version of Catelyn is not great. She has very little of the decisiveness of the book character and, ridiculously, a lot of the ideas she has in the novel are given to other characters and then used to convince her of what action to take. It's all rather bizarre and serves only to strip TV Catelyn of violition.

Michelle Fairley is doing an excellent job, it has to be said, and it's not as disastrous a change as has been done to Littlefinger, but the TV character is really nowhere near as interesting or as respectable as the book version.

Luya Sevrein
May 5th, 2012, 12:23 PM
The TV version of Catelyn is not great. She has very little of the decisiveness of the book character and, ridiculously, a lot of the ideas she has in the novel are given to other characters and then used to convince her of what action to take. It's all rather bizarre and serves only to strip TV Catelyn of violition.

Michelle Fairley is doing an excellent job, it has to be said, and it's not as disastrous a change as has been done to Littlefinger, but the TV character is really nowhere near as interesting or as respectable as the book version.

You say that as if it's objective, but I disagree. ShowCat was the one to call in her family's bannermen and arrest Tyrion, she was the one to suggest talking to the Frays and arranging terms, she was the one who got Renly on side before his death, and she was the one who told Brienne, 'Right, let's run, I am not dying in this tent.' That is not indecisive to me.

KatG
May 5th, 2012, 12:54 PM
You say that as if it's objective, but I disagree. ShowCat was the one to call in her family's bannermen and arrest Tyrion, she was the one to suggest talking to the Frays and arranging terms, she was the one who got Renly on side before his death, and she was the one who told Brienne, 'Right, let's run, I am not dying in this tent.' That is not indecisive to me.

Those things were all in the books as well. I think Wert is talking about stuff they changed. They made her much more passive while Tyrion was at the Eyrie, for instance, and they did have Ned order her around more. She has a much bigger influence on Robb in the books than in the series so far, about both battles and diplomacy. I do like BookCat more, but I don't find ShowCat to be that off the mark. She has, however, had the edges rubbed off a bit.

Luya Sevrein
May 6th, 2012, 04:19 AM
Those things were all in the books as well. I think Wert is talking about stuff they changed. They made her much more passive while Tyrion was at the Eyrie, for instance, and they did have Ned order her around more. She has a much bigger influence on Robb in the books than in the series so far, about both battles and diplomacy. I do like BookCat more, but I don't find ShowCat to be that off the mark. She has, however, had the edges rubbed off a bit.

Oh I know, the influence on Robb is the major loss for me, but I don't think she comes across as ineffective or indecisive. Especailly since many haven't read the books, so don't have anything to compare her with.

My main reason is just because there are no long, rambling monologues about how depressing everything is or wondering how each of her children is. She comes across as a lot stronger on screen.

Werthead
May 6th, 2012, 11:46 AM
The biggest problem is that in the book it's Cat who points out the political ramifications of Ned refusing Robert's offer and suggesting he take advantage of the post to investigate Jon Arryn's death and Lysa's claims. She's not happy to do it, but she believes it is the best hope of heading off the Lannisters' power-grab and the safest course in the long run.

Book Cat is a hard-headed political realist, much moreso than Ned, due to her schooling in the politics in the south. It's a major facet of her character and sets her apart from the traditional naive female role (which is fulfilled instead by Sansa) without moving to the also traditional tomboy approach (which is fulfilled by Arya).

On TV, Cat hates the idea of Ned going south from the start and tries to dissuade him repeatedly in a much more obvious, 'worried wife' stereotypical way. Her political knowledge is still there, but blunted considerably compared to that of her book character.

In addition, in the books it is Cat's idea to treat with Renly rather than Robb's. Given this is a bold gambit which nearly shifts the axis of the entire war, it's rather unflattering to the character to take the idea away from her, give it to Robb and have Robb have to talk her into it.

TV Cat is more traditional and more stereotypical a character than Book Cat is. It's not a bad a hatchet job as they've done on Littlefinger, but it is unfortunate.

KatG
May 7th, 2012, 11:31 AM
Again, I think the problem is that they're quite sure that the t.v. audience can't handle certain things about female characters. They do keep pushing things into more stereotypical grooves there. And on that front, I would happily drown poor "Lady" Taleesa. But otherwise, last night's episode was great fun. It's a very weird mix, because they do a lot of lines directly from the book -- I remember them -- and then they'll go off on a tangent, like Jon and Ygritte's It Happened One Night adventure and the dragonettes getting kidnapped by the Undying. I enjoyed the most Arya's second victim dying in the doorway.

DailyRich
May 7th, 2012, 03:44 PM
I enjoyed the most Arya's second victim dying in the doorway.

That did more to make Jaqen appear like the badass he is than almost anything Martin did in the books. Just brilliantly done.

I like what they're doing with Dany in Qarth. They're actually forcing her struggle with leadership to be an external one rather than something she thinks her way through. And having to follow her dragons to the House of the Undying makes more sense than her simply deciding to go there.

And if I may indulge in some stereotypical male behavior, well hellooooooo Tonks...

Loerwyn
May 7th, 2012, 04:07 PM
So, here we go, another episode. Bloody recap.

1. I worked out what annoys me about the "new" title screen. The "duh nah nah nah" violin bit is repeated too much.
2. Well that was a bit sudden.
3. Chinfluff sucks. Intimidating a disabled child and insulting his aide.
4. Bronn/Brann/Whatever rocks, though. Fast becoming one of my favourites.
5. HAHAHA! :D Burrrrrrrrn
6. LOOK AT ME I MUST SHOUT AT EVERYONE BECAUSE I CAN'T PUT MY WILLY IN EVERYTHING
7. OSHA! <3
8. Wait, what you doing, girl?!
9. "Kitchen sluts"? Go swivel, Chinfluff.
10. Haha, Roderick (spelt wrong?) - Awesome.
11. Can you tell I hate Chinfluff?
12. Ohhhhhhh, daddy issues. Still hate him.
13. Hey, a convenient cutting block.
14. He who... awesome reference to LYORD EDDYARD STYARK
15. He can't even do an execution. What an utter idiot. I hate you, Chinfluff.
16. Phew. Ad break.
17. Jon, I want my hair back. Thanks.
18. Charles Dance is gooooooood.
19. Seems almost like Arya and Tywin could be friends.
20. Littlefinger! You can smell the slime.
21. Hmm... Me thinks he knows who Arya is.
22. Ooooh *giggle* redhead :3
23. GET ON WITH IT YOU GORMLESS TWIT.
24. Oopsie, he missed.
25. Woot! :D She ran away!
26. What on Earth is he up to? Jon Snow, you are one useless sack of dumbness.
27. Wow. How graceless is that boat?
28. Joffrey is a *cough*
29. Piss off, Joffrey.
30. YES! :D SPLAT!
31. YOU CYAN'T INSYULT MEHHHHHHHHHHHHH
32. YES! TYRION! :D ANOTHER SLAP! I'm grinning!
33. That scene... oh god.
34. Phew. Hound arrived. But... still.
35. Too much. Bit too much there. Sorry, but... no.
36. Weak moment for Dinklage, there, I think.
37. Daenerys is walking like a robot there. Cleavage window, too. Meh.
38. Who's the slimy guy in Qarth? I don't like him.
39. Sarcastic little git. Actually, that's awesome.
40. No, now he's just a git.
40b. But he has a point, though.
41. Daenerys' eyebrows are alive!
42. She always sounds like she's about to burst into tears, though.
43. Yup, a flair for drama.
44. Jamie is dyslexic? Hm. Interesting to see that crop up in a show.
45. The scene with Tywin and Arya again? Yeah, I can see those characters working well together.
46. Wow, he gave up quickly.
47. Door opens, thump. Lawl.
48. Oooh, there's the medic girl again. Yay.
49. Ha! Rob(b) got interrupted by his mummy.
50. He's embarrassed by his mummy!
51. Very awkward spooning there by Jon.
52. I like her. She seems awesome.
53. Can the Wildlings win, please? Please?
54. She is awesome.
55. D'awww she's got a crush.
56. Who's the guy talking to Rob(b)? He seems intelligent.
57. If Osha doesn't rip Chinfluff's *cough* off, I'll be disappointed.
58. Nooooooo, don't! You'll catch something! He sticks it in anything that moves, even if its movement isn't... noticeable.
59. Noooooo :'(
60. Noooooo again. Now a guard?!
61. Ooooh! <3
62. Osha is awesome. Very selfless of her.
63. Wonder if that was the creepy zombie guy. Hm.

saintjon
May 7th, 2012, 04:35 PM
The intelligent seeming guy talking to Robb is Roose Bolton, Lord of the Dreadfort. His house sigil is a flayed man. His house is very proud and practical about said sigil. Yes, he is intelligent and also horrifically creepy. He is one of those northern lords where the more you learn about him the more you realize Ned Stark was a masterful leader to be able to keep guys like this in check. (as opposed to the ones who make you realize it right away like the Greatjon)

Loerwyn
May 7th, 2012, 04:39 PM
The intelligent seeming guy talking to Robb is Roose Bolton, Lord of the Dreadfort. His house sigil is a flayed man. His house is very proud and practical about said sigil. Yes, he is intelligent and also horrifically creepy. He is one of those northern lords where the more you learn about him the more you realize Ned Stark was a masterful leader to be able to keep guys like this in check. (as opposed to the ones who make you realize it right away like the Greatjon)
I see. Thanks. It still means little to me so far, but he seems like a good right hand man for Robb. For now, anyway.