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algernoninc
May 10th, 2012, 04:14 PM
waiting for the next episode I came across this poster for Game of Thrones (Disney version according to artist Mona Collentine) :
http://cache1.bigcartel.com/product_images/60305171/Mona_Collentine_Mother_of_Dragons_Daenerys_Hey_Gee k_Girl_Ltd_1.jpg

Riothamus
May 10th, 2012, 05:17 PM
I've been wondering what it would be like if it were a Saturday Morning Cartoon. :P

KatG
May 10th, 2012, 07:06 PM
Theon's visitor at Winterfell is most likely Asha/Yara.

It wouldn't make a lot of sense to have Yara come, as her men could hold Winterfell and dislodge Theon. Or she could go and leave, and then her father would strip her hide for losing Winterfell. Doesn't make a great deal of sense. Perhaps Theon will be visited by a prostitute. Maybe Roz decided to come back north.


Ramsay will probably be introduced next season. Just like how Stannis was mentioned several times last year, but not introduced.

Stannis was not mentioned as being sent to Winterfell right this very minute. He was just off on his island. Stannis did not appear in the first book either. Ramsey does appear in Book 2 in a pivotal role (although obviously the Reek stuff could be dispensed with,) that brings Theon's storyline to its dramatic highpoint -- he has betrayed Robb and then in turn is betrayed and not only loses Winterfell but allows it to be destroyed. However, it appears that this is indeed what they are doing. They're simply going to have Theon twiddle his thumbs at Winterfell and burn the boys and save the fire of Winterfell for Season 3. Which causes Theon's storyline to fall flat on its ass. But once again, budget issues are causing harm to the show and we'll just have to lump it.


I don't see why "Theon keeping Winterfell isn't going to work", or why they "have to end with his comeuppance". There is really no reason why they can't stretch that out, until the start of Season 3.

They can and they are, but that means that Theon's entire storyline doesn't go anywhere for Season 2. There's no dramatic cliffhanger. There's no resolution. There's no arc to the betrayal storyline. Danny has the House of the Undying, then meeting Selmy at the docks and leaving Qarth. John has killing Halfhand and joining the wildings on his mission. Tyrion and Davos have the battle of Blackwater and the assassination attempt on Tyrion. Robb has the story they made up for him, Arya gets free of Harrenhal after parting with Jacquen. And Theon has going back to Pyke, betraying Robb, returning to Winterfell to take it, killing the boys to fake Bran and Rickon's deaths (at the urging of Reek/Ramsey), facing Robb's men, having those men be betrayed by Ramsey Bolton ("Robb is betrayed"), throwing open the gates to Ramsey, and Ramsey sets Winterfell on fire. That's the storyline. That's the endpoint of Theon's betrayal of Robb -- he is then betrayed and all of Bran's dreams about Winterfell come true. If they decide to wait on the fire till next season, then Theon's story piddles away after them spending oodles and oodles of time on it. So for me, it doesn't work, but that's what they are doing. They have set it up very poorly, in my opinion.


They've actually said several times that they are no longer adhering to the "one book per season" rule. They are now looking at it as a much more flexible adaptation of ASOIAF. Things will be pushed forward and pulled backwards, more and more.

Yes, I already know this. They are splitting Storm into two seasons, with the Red Wedding being the big gun for season 3, and obviously Crows and Dragons will be done together, chronologically, not separate, for seasons 5 and 6. Nonetheless, they decided to keep Theon's storyline, when they could have cut a lot of it, and feature it in this season. And the fire at Winterfell that Ramsey lights is the only end of the Theon takes Winterfell storyline that has any oomph to it. Also, the question is raised, if it's not the Boltons who betray Robb in that episode, who does? Are they moving up Cat's sending Jamie off with Brienne? That's possible, as it gives Jamie and Brienne something to do to end the season.

I'll have to see if I like it. I've liked the last two episodes very much. But this just annoys me even more about how they've handled Theon's story this season.*

*On the other hand, it just occurred to me that maybe they decided they didn't want two big fire scenes plus the funky burning of the Blackwater battle. That was probably the reasoning. Sigh.

Evil Agent
May 10th, 2012, 08:20 PM
I'm surprised at how infrequently this line has been uttered, though:
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/365/starkpls.jpg

A few hints to it, sure, but I can't recall anyone actually saying it.Seriously? "Winter is coming" has been said by Ned Stark multiple times, by Arya Stark, by Benjen Stark, by Maester Aemon at the Wall, by Catelyn (two weeks ago). I'm sure there are more...

saintjon
May 10th, 2012, 08:22 PM
Kat you do remember that Asha came to see Theon in the book right? In Winterfell? She told him he was an idiot for taking it.

PS, Emilia Clarke must feel pretty good about her looks seeing as that Disney cartoon resembles her so closely.

Evil Agent
May 10th, 2012, 09:01 PM
And the fire at Winterfell that Ramsey lights is the only end of the Theon takes Winterfell storyline that has any oomph to it. Also, the question is raised, if it's not the Boltons who betray Robb in that episode, who does? Are they moving up Cat's sending Jamie off with Brienne? That's possible, as it gives Jamie and Brienne something to do to end the season.

I'll have to see if I like it. I've liked the last two episodes very much. But this just annoys me even more about how they've handled Theon's story this season.*You're annoyed with how they've handled Theon's storyline this season? I personally think it's by far the single best thing about Season 2, and that they've nailed it to perfection. From what I've seen around the net, even the most ardent of purists are happy with the Theon story line at present. It seems to be one of the only areas of the show this year that's relatively controversy free.

I see what you're saying about end points, but I'm still not convinced that we need to have Ramsey and the fire this season, in order to have any "oomph". I'm quite confident that they will be able to end his storyline this season in a satisfactory way, whether we get to Ramsey or not.

And lastly, yes, they are indeed moving up the Cat/Jaime/Brienne stuff into this season. And while I'm not sure, my hunch is that that is the betrayal mentioned in the synopsis.

KatG
May 10th, 2012, 11:20 PM
Kat you do remember that Asha came to see Theon in the book right? In Winterfell? She told him he was an idiot for taking it.


Yes, yes, but if they aren't going to move things along, it makes less sense to have her visit and then leave and it's not dramatic.


You're annoyed with how they've handled Theon's storyline this season?

You haven't read my earlier posts on past episodes, have you? :) Yes, I've been annoyed that they've spent as much narrative time on Theon as opposed to other aspects of the story, several of which have been cut or shortened. It is my feeling that some of Theon's scenes could have been shorter, and that in the early episodes of this season, not just with Theon's scenes but including those, they spent too much time on stuff that was not moving the narrative forward at the expense of better material. The Davos-Stannis material has been cut to the bone, for example. I wouldn't have minded more of that and shorter scenes for Theon's storyline. It did not need so much time to get Theon into the boat.

But the producers decided that they want to feature Theon, starting with a bit more material for him in season 1 and then all this stuff in season 2 because Theon has a great storyline with Bran in A Clash of Kings, of his return to his family and betraying the Starks, ending with the razing of Winterfell. Having decided to spend the time featuring that storyline, they are now going to not complete it in order to have Theon -- who disappears in A Storm of Swords -- have some material in Season 3. But that means that in season 2, that storyline ends with a whimper, not a bang, which given that it was kind of annoying they were so strongly emphasizing Theon, is indeed kind of annoying altogether.

As I was going over the other storylines in my last post, however, as I noted, I was thinking that the fact that it's three fires probably also played a big hand. Three fires for Martin in the book becomes a symbolic pattern of coming autumn, (along with Melissandre's fires.) For a t.v. series, it is visually more of a problem and having only two big fires -- Dany's and Blackwater (plus Melissandre's fire,) probably works for them better, producing a symbolic parallel. So I accept it, but I think in choosing that course of action, they should have not gone quite so much to town on Theon's scenes previously and instead made the capture of Winterfell the dramatic endpoint. Because he's just going to be sitting up there, pretending Bran is dead. But you never know, maybe they'll throw in something else. And Bran's own storyline can have the needed punch.


they are indeed moving up the Cat/Jaime/Brienne stuff into this season.

Yeah, they wanted more for Robb, Cat and Jaime to do, but weren't going to do Riverrun and the battles, and of course, having introduced Brienne, having her sit around is less interesting. So that one makes sense as it adds dramatic oomph to Rob's storyline. Which I certainly prefer to the weird flirting scenes.

There is certainly going to be enough going on besides Theon in the last four episodes. But it doesn't balance very well. This season has been more uneven for me, although it's had some great stuff and great actors.

Loerwyn
May 11th, 2012, 03:57 AM
Seriously? "Winter is coming" has been said by Ned Stark multiple times, by Arya Stark, by Benjen Stark, by Maester Aemon at the Wall, by Catelyn (two weeks ago). I'm sure there are more...
Except Ned Stark isn't in this season.

I should have clarified - very few people have said it this season. It's like they've forgotten the impending winter.

Luya Sevrein
May 11th, 2012, 09:43 AM
I think they're more likely to begin Book 3 in this season, at least in parts. Like with Jaime, I think, since he's had so little to do. I think that escape will happen. I also think the ending of Season 2 could/should be a burning Winterfel. There's nothing else quite as powerful going on around that time.

Chocobo
May 11th, 2012, 10:43 AM
I think they're more likely to begin Book 3 in this season, at least in parts. Like with Jaime, I think, since he's had so little to do. I think that escape will happen. I also think the ending of Season 2 could/should be a burning Winterfel. There's nothing else quite as powerful going on around that time.

i think the battle of blackwater bay is a pretty powerful event which happens around the same time, its been a while since i read a clash of kings but i was under the impression that was the big finale to it?