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Palfrey
May 20th, 2012, 11:10 AM
Arya whines tons and snaps at people.

That's your opinion. Mine is that I've never heard Arya whine or snap. She complains and argues, but those are different things. It's all about how the person comes across, and most people like the way Arya comes across better than Sansa.

KatG
May 20th, 2012, 05:03 PM
So why's next episode called Prince of Winterfell? Surely they can't do much more with Winterfell until Reek comes, bar an amazing fun between between Theon and Yara.

Apparently, fun with Theon and Yara is all we're getting. The rest will be in Season 3. I imagine it's called the Prince of Winterfell because Yara mocks Theon about that. But the bigger action will probably be elsewhere.


That's your opinion. Mine is that I've never heard Arya whine or snap. She complains and argues, but those are different things. It's all about how the person comes across, and most people like the way Arya comes across better than Sansa.

Very true. It is my opinion that Arya whines quite a lot in the beginning -- at her mother, father, various servants, Syrio, to Jon, etc. She does not have great impulse control at the beginning and she yells at people quite a bit. Her parents sigh over her temper tantrums. It's also my opinion that Arya is a much more likable character at the beginning than Sansa, but that this tends to make her a smidgeon less interesting than Sansa. (But only a smidgeon.) It is also my opinion that Arya does tend to get more approval from people because she acts more like a male, or more specifically, what we expect of a boy action hero. It's my opinion that Sansa in the show gets more approval from people when she says standard male badass lines, like "maybe my brother will bring me your head" to Joffrey and thinks about pushing him off the bridge. But Sansa can only do that in tenuous circumstances, because she's trying to survive and help her family. The different kind of courage she showed supplicating herself to try to negotiate to save her father's life tends to be undervalued by many people and tends to be seen as weak, female and non-actiony.

It's not necessarily a bad thing -- we're supposed to find Arya spunky and Sansa annoying at first. And it's a good thing in that we are firmly invested in the female character's capability of being an action hero in our society now. But in my opinion, both Arya and Sansa learn not to whine because of events in the story.

Luya Sevrein
May 20th, 2012, 11:33 PM
Well, I just finished watching it, Kat...

There was no bigger action.

I mean, seriously, could we not have had the Undying tonight, Blackwater next week and then the Scorpian peir scene to finish off Dany? Because nothing freaking happened.

It's the first episode that's /annoyed/ me. I think because there's so few left, and because I wait so long for them and actually get excited. /sigh

So... Talissa? Guess the Cragg stuff didn't happen. I was upset. I was looking forward to it, I thought it might be interesting... Bleh.

...Just... Yeah, I don't care.

I'm off to sulk.

Jop
May 21st, 2012, 06:27 AM
So... Talissa? Guess the Cragg stuff didn't happen. I was upset. I was looking forward to it, I thought it might be interesting... Bleh.

I was kind of disappointed that they diverged from the book on this where Robb "took comfort" from (?) Jeyne Westerling while recovering from battle injuries and married her out of honor - All the show did was portray him as a horny teenager, although the end result will likely remain the same (marrying her because he "deflowered" her - God, I love those phrases...)

Glelas
May 21st, 2012, 07:41 AM
Tyrion, Bronn, Varys segment - "Scene of the Season Award"

Luya Sevrein
May 21st, 2012, 08:47 AM
Okay, I'm less awkward now and can review properly. 8D

Many don't, but I find Brienne's actress a little... I don't know, forced? Like she is trying hard with an accent or something. It feels like a decission she has made, though. I have the same problem with Sansa. Sometimes, they make lines feel rehersed. So I was pleasently suprised with the Brienne/Jaime scene! I also really love Jaime... Like, wow. He is just amazing. 8D As well as mean. But hey.

Cat and Robb? Fine. Didn't really happen in the books but they can't do the whole 'What I did for love' thing if he's not actually screwed/married Jeyne yet. So I imagine this'll drag out, but it did make Cat look awful again.

Really annoyed about the Talissa thing, while we're on the subject. I also did not appriciate a story taking ten minutes of the show when it has nothing to do with the book. Well done for making up your own story, guys, and dancing round the Rhoyne seems hella' fun and refreshing, but meh. Then sex.

No weasel soup? Kinda' makes Arya seem like a needy little girl to me. She didn't even slay a guard herself. Tut tut. I knew they were leaving the coin scene till episode 10 though, from summaries.

Wildlings... meh. Kinda wish they killed Jon. DO WANT more Ghost.

Tyrion and Bronn were like an old married couple. I love it! And more Varys screen time is always amazing.

I also adored the scene between Davos and Stannis, apart from Robert being named as his oldest brother - he's middle, ne? I forget. Anyways, it was amazing. They just need to cuddle it out.

Luya Sevrein
May 21st, 2012, 08:57 AM
K. I figured out what is annoying me, apologies for the double post.

It's episode 8. You shouldn't be doing those long, drawn-out, talking about random crap scenes, or sex scenes. You should be getting down to action. :C

Palfrey
May 21st, 2012, 10:34 AM
Quite surprised by Tyrion's expression of love for Shae. Also disappointed that Talissa is really from Voltanis. That gives her no "official" status in Westerorsi society, which means Robb marrying her won't be as big of a deal as it was with Jeyne Westerling in the books.

There was also way, way too much time spent on Talissa's little back story, especially considering that Volantis doesn't really enter the story until book 5. The people who haven't read the books will have forgotten all mention of it by then. I would have liked to see more Jaime and Brienne instead.

Also disappointed in the lack of weasel soup. I enjoyed all the Arya-Tywin scenes but there were too many of them.

Except for the Arya-Jaqen scene, it was a disappointing episode. Although, I had completely forgotten about Sam discovering the cache of obsidian weapons. I also can't remember how Arya gets the coin from Jaqen...

AuntiePam
May 21st, 2012, 10:51 AM
I mean, seriously, could we not have had the Undying tonight, Blackwater next week and then the Scorpian peir scene to finish off Dany? Because nothing freaking happened.

It's the first episode that's /annoyed/ me. I think because there's so few left, and because I wait so long for them and actually get excited. /sigh


I was annoyed too, and agree that the writers could have finished at least one of the plot lines in this episode. This episode might sit better when the DVD comes out and we can watch ep. 7, then this one, then 9 and 10. But as a stand-alone, it was disappointing.

I suppose the writers figured that seeing Bran and Rickon alive was worth the wait, but it wasn't, because no one was surprised at that. Even the non-readers knew the boys weren't dead.

There's too much story for 10 episodes. The writers should forget about compressing each book into one season and let the story unfold naturally. I hear they'll do that for ASoS, but they should have done it with ACoK as well.

Didn't like Rob and Kalisa, Asha/Yara softening toward Theon (you smiled at me!), Cat not learning about Bran and Rickon but freeing Jaime anyway, no weasel soup, and a bunch of other stuff I'm forgetting.

KatG
May 21st, 2012, 02:55 PM
Actually, I quite liked most of the episode. It had some of the best writing we've had in the season, and I agree that the Tyrion/Bronn/Varys scene was maybe the best of the season, followed by an almost as good conversation between Tyrion and Varys on the ramparts (although I kept expecting that conversation to edge towards the idea of the chain and it didn't, so that will be next episode, I presume.)

The lack of weasel soup was due to a number of changes in how they are doing the Harrenhal sequence and the Boltons being largely held back till next season. In the book, Arya is prisoner under Loch and is Weese's cup bearer, (whom Arya has Jaquen execute,) with Tywin barely appearing. Then Hoat comes in with his 100 Northmen prisoners and Arya tricks Jaquen into helping to free the prisoners, including using the help of Rorge and Biter, which involves the weasel soup on the guards, and the Northmen take over the castle. Roose Bolton comes and takes possession of the castle from Hoat, who has been bought to switch sides. Arya decides not to reveal who she is yet to Bolton or the Northmen and becomes Bolton's cup bearer. Jaquen gives Arya the coin, changes his face and leaves. Loch is executed via a bear in the pit. Arya overhears about the news from Winterfell when the Freys meet with Bolton. Bolton plans to leave to go back north and leave Harrenhal to Hoat, which Arya knows is very dangerous for her. So she, Hot Pie and Gendry escape Harrenhal on their own, with Arya killing a guard.

But we don't have any of that in the show. Instead, Tywin made Harrenhal his base and Arya his cup bearer. Jaquen's second kill was Loch, not Weese. Rorge and Biter don't seem to be allied with Jaquen. Although there are some northern soldiers in the prisoners at Harrenhal, there is no large force led by Glover held prisoner whom Arya is trying to free. Instead, Arya hears Tywin planning to attack Robb with a quick march while Robb is distracted and men down from the Winterfell business. So she wants to get out of Harrenhal to try to warn Rob's forces. So she gets Jaquen to arrange that instead, and she doesn't need to kill a guard because when you have Jaquen do something, he does it thoroughly. Why she wants Hot Pie along and not the rest of the boys from the recruitment train, I'm not really clear on storywise, but actors are expensive. So there's no bear pit yet, no Bolton because he's still with Robb, no real dance between Arya and Hoat. And there's no need for weasel soup. It wouldn't have made a lot of sense the way they changed the plot. My guess is that they may end Arya's storyline in episode 10 with her running into the Brotherhood, the same way they ended her storyline in Season 2 with us seeing the three men in the wagon. Jaquen will also give her the coin in episode 10.

I did think they might do Danys' House of Undying effort in this episode, but they are apparently saving it for episode 10, to end the whole season. The beginning of it might be in Episode 9, as will some of Jon meeting Mance, but most of that episode will be Blackwater. And as we know, since Ramsey Bolton is not coming to Winterfell until next season, Theon's plotline is pretty much done, except for Bran and Rickon really escaping this time from the crypt.

So this was again another set-up episode, but it was on the better side of the ones they've had. I liked the Yara/Theon interaction and Arya and Jaquen were pretty priceless. Loved the Stannis and Davos conversation. Although it was very late in the game to explain Davos' back story, it was beautifully done between the two men and sets up nicely for Blackwater. We got the info that Joffrey is 17, which I think is a little high to set his age. He's playing it much more 15. Cersei was great fun, trying to get her mojo back after her moment of vulnerability and the scene with her and Tyrion when she blackmails him was almost as enjoyable as the other Tyrion scenes. Poor Roz! But this was by far the most brilliant use of her character in the show, including her willingness to go along with the ruse that can get her killed on the hopes that Tyrion is going to reward her: "Don't forget about me." And Tyrion's speech to her was hilariously funny. His scene with Shae was nice, effectively short, and rather heart-breaking for those who have read the books. (But I'm getting rather annoyed at the seemingly deliberate refusal to let us have a clear look at Podrick.) Jon and Halfhand's reunion I thought was well done. Yes, it was slow because it was just a slice, but they're setting it up well and I was happy to see the Lord of Bones. Loved Sam and the boys finding the cache of obsidian blades. Danys' storyline was barely there, but it was kind of fun to watch her manipulate Jorah. She's starting to get her mojo back too; this is very consistent with Danys' character -- she's at a loss and hesitates, then she rebounds.

I'm a little more charitable at this point on the Robb-Talissa storyline. Clearly, they've thrown the Jeyne storyline out the window, no more confusion over that. They gave Talissa a nice back story nicely told that made a lot more sense of why she might be there (though I still kind of wonder if they'll turn her into a spy.) But then there's the old school Harlequin romance aspect, which was just really painful. A bit like being thrown into a Bronte novel in the middle of Martin's orchestration -- it jars. Also, they didn't even lower the tent flap. So mostly, it's just painful.

And Robb's tantrum to Cat was a bigger pain. They created this whole set of reasons for Cat to release Jaime with Brienne: Littlefinger telling her she could get her girls back in a secret deal, and more urgently the bannerman likely to kill Jaime before Robb returned and they'd lose the use of him altogether. And then she doesn't mention them to Robb at all. He just calls her stupid and locks her up. So yes, I agree with those who feel Cat's been reduced from savvy statesperson to annoying mother. The show still can't seem to just trust Martin's female characters, which is annoying.

Maester L at Winterfell continues to impress. But it does seem a bit of a waste of time to have Osha do that elaborate escape -- without any supplies for some reason -- only to have them double back and hide in the crypt. It seems to have just been an excuse so they could have the actress naked and stretch things out a bit more. So I kind of shrugged on that, but did like Bran overhearing about the two dead orphan boys.

All in all, I thought they tied up a lot of loose narrative ends in this episode, in preparation for the fireworks of the last two. And the guards hanging dead in Harrenhal was nice and creepy.