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Eldanuumea
December 19th, 2002, 09:01 AM
One element of LOTR that has come home to me in a far more vivid way than before is the connection between Gollum and Frodo. I must admit that I have had a tendency to rush through those chapters where Frodo, Sam, and Gollum are described on their way to Mordor. But seeing the film has motivated me to reread them and pay closer attention.
I knew Frodo empathised with Gollum over the effects of the burden of the ring, but it just didn't come home to me how strong that empathy must have been.

Hobbit
December 20th, 2002, 12:16 PM
SPOILER (I think!)



















One of the main changes that Jackson has made in the Two Towers is this emphasis on making Gollum a somewhat sympathetic character (not to mention schizophrenic! :) ) Though the evidence is there in the book, Jacksons interpretation of Gollum is to create more sympathy with Gollum as well as emphasising that this is what can happen to Frodo. As far as it goes, the idea is in the books, just not as obviously as Jackson has made it.

Pleased you enjoyed the film! :)

Hobbit

Cadfael
December 20th, 2002, 11:30 PM
There is a very good article on the main section of SFF World called 'The Corruption Of Frodo'... essentially what is says is that Frodo failed in his quest to destroy the Ring... and when you think about he did. At the very last he decided not do throw the Ring in to the fire... it was 'too precious' to him. This was the Ring working it influence on him of course... in fact.. I always think of the Ring as an Itelligent entity.. and the closer to Orodruin Frodo came... the more desperate it fight for survival became... until it won. Frodo was only a Hobbit, he was never going to be a match for the Ring.

But.. he did complete his appointed task given to him by fate.. or Illuvater.. he brought the Ring to the very spot for Gollum to complete HIS appointed task.

That is why the 'gods' delivered it into the hands of Hobbits... they were hardy.. and not easily corrupted... they could withstand the lure longer. If Aragorn had carried the Ring for only half the time that Bilbo had it... he would have taken on Sauron with it power.. and become a Dark Lord himself. In order for it to be destroyed... it HAD to be found... and better by a Hobbit than a Man... who would fall under it guile all the sooner. Don't forget... Smeagol was a distant relation of the Hobbit kind... a Stoor I think.

But basically... the closer to its doom the Ring was carried... the more desparate it fought back...and I have seen the power that desperation can unleash. Frodo could not hope to defete that kind of power... he was doomed to fail... I also think he knew it.

As regards Frodo's empathy with Gollum... or understanding... I think he may have known what was to come... Gandalf had told him that Gollum may still have a part to play... and there must be a reason Bilbo did not kill him... it was out of pity.. but from what power did that pity sping?

Mears
December 21st, 2002, 02:12 PM
I thought that this was played out really well in the film. I have always read the relationship as one of part pity and part desire to redeem Gollum on Frodo's part. Sam is the perfect balance for this, harsh, distrustful and prejudiced. I loved the trust Frodo built up with Smaegol only to have it broken by Faramir's actions.



Then there's always that wonderful line from the Parody.... Bilbo would have killed the creature, but pity stayed his hand. "Pity I've run out of bullets" he said....... I have deliberately changed the name back to the original to spare Elda's blushes. ;)

Eldanuumea
December 21st, 2002, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by Mears
I thought that this was played out really well in the film. I have always read the relationship as one of part pity and part desire to redeem Gollum on Frodo's part. Sam is the perfect balance for this, harsh, distrustful and prejudiced. I loved the trust Frodo built up with Smaegol only to have it broken by Faramir's actions.



Then there's always that wonderful line from the Parody.... Bilbo would have killed the creature, but pity stayed his hand. "Pity I've run out of bullets" he said....... I have deliberately changed the name back to the original to spare Elda's blushes. ;)

And she thanks you for your chivalry....believe it or not, despite my occasional boldness I am very easily embarrassed!

Shanoncia
January 20th, 2003, 02:15 PM
Yes, when reading and even rereading LOTR I found the part in Mordor to be long, drawn out and nearly painful in such a way that I had to wait a long time before I could convince myself to go back and read it again. However, I think being dragged thru the entirety of the hellish journey, somehow in my opinion it really enhances your perception of Frodo's and Sam's monotonous and excruciating stuggle. I think it's great to show the readers no mercy. :)

In the movie they did take advantage of there artistic liscence... heh... but in that medium we really don't need to be dragged thru the long pain IMO because, we have all the necesary traumatic visuals.

Lady Lenox
January 30th, 2003, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by Eldanuumea
I must admit that I have had a tendency to rush through those chapters where Frodo, Sam, and Gollum are described on their way to Mordor. But seeing the film has motivated me to reread them and pay closer attention.
I knew Frodo empathised with Gollum over the effects of the burden of the ring, but it just didn't come home to me how strong that empathy must have been.


I have to agree, Elda. I never read the Sam, Frodo and Gollum pieces with as much interest as the rest of the story...kinda skim read it all.
Anywayz, I'd have to say that PJ did a good job portraying of the relationship betwen Frodo and Gollum (not that you can call it much of a relationship), I believe it had a good impact on me as a member of the audience.
It has also motivated me to re-read those chapters, as soon as I can get my book back. :rolleyes:

Dallandra
February 6th, 2003, 05:13 AM
Yes, the part about the way to Mordor was a bit boring, I must admit. Iīm re-reading the book right now, but I havenīt got to the part yet. I was very glad about the way Jackson had made it in the film, very good:)

Merancapeman
February 6th, 2003, 07:49 AM
All i have to say is, the battle between the ents and the dark lord had to be the BEST scene in the movie. Best movie i had ever seen!!