[Stylewriter]

hi!
I read BNW several times and there are still some questions I'd like to discuss with you guys.
I read a lot about Sigmund Freud's theories. And now I would like to compare his definition of "sublimation" with the life in BNW.

For those who don't know the definition of "sublimation":
According to the psychological theories of Freud (and Lacan), whenever someone diverts the energy produced by some drive (like the drive for sex or anger) towards some other goal, that is the process of sublimation. Normally, the energy is believed to be diverted to some better or higher goal, like the production of art. Indeed, Freud argued that the whole of culture was a product of subliminated sexual urges.

It would be very nice, if you write your ideas back in this board.

Thanx a lot!!! :)

[Stylewriter]

Hi!
If there are any mistakes (grammatical and/or spelling), please correct me!
I am from germany and am not as good in the english language as you have to be :D
So I hope, that you correct my failures in the following text:

Freud’s definition of sublimation says that the drive for sex can be derived into a higher goal. If so, you won’t have sex and put your energy into a culturally higher activity (e.g.: art).
The motto “Everybody belongs to everybody else” is an order to the whole worldlings. This is the cause why everybody has got an extensive sex life. From little ages on they are conditioned to have sex with other people.
The Controllers of “Brave New World” used the sex drive of the humans to control that they are not able to put their instinctual impulse into a socially higher activity like art, which would be a danger for the stability in “Brave New World”.
But why is it dangerous for the stability in “Brave New World” that an instinctual impulse like the drive for sex is turned into a culturally higher goal?
Facts are, that you need a great and extensive imagination, have a lot of ideas and you have to be independent from the political system when you want to be able to create art.
An artist needs independence and has not to be controlled by the law, if he wants to create a piece of art from his sight. But if he is allowed to do so, the humans think about the meaning of this piece of art. From now on the people would start to make their own ideas about any things and perhaps about the system in “Brave New World” and would have come to the result that they will live in other ways like the system teaches them it would be the end of the “Brave New World”.
This is the cause why the controllers wants to stop the sublimation!

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It would be nice, if you write your ideas back to me in this forum. Perhaps you think in a completly other way like I do?!

Bye,

Stylewriter

[I, Brian]

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with your argument, applying "sublimination" specifically to BNW.

One of the essential points about art in BNW is that personal, political, and social inability lead to great creativity. Therefore to accept that "high art" would be to acknowledge that the supposedly "perfect" Fordian culture had failed.

The mantra "everyone belongs to someone else" is a way of creating personal and emotional stability, especially eradicating notions of loneliness and jealousy. Remember how little Hemlholtz could understand of the jealous rivalries in "Romeo and Juliet?"

So, in any words, I think to your point was that there was no scope for sublimation in BNW, as there was no pent up sexual tension that required re-directing elsewhere.

(Just read it - first time - so it's still on my mind.)

[Ogg]

...as there was no pent up sexual tension that required re-directing elsewhere.

I'd have to second that one. I mean that's all they did in that book, like a bunch of rabid rabbits. No sexual tension build ups there.....

[Ken Korczak]

One of the most pointed to examples of repressed sexual energy redirected to creative production is Leonardo da Vinci. Said to be a homosexual, Leonardo none-the-less supposedly never had sex with anybody, man or woman -- and thus explaining is amazing output of ideas, paintings, inventions, etc.

It's a neat theory, but is it true? How could you ever pin this down scientifically? Not very easy, if not at all. Frued was a genius at coming up with compelling ideas that are difficult to refute -- yet at the same time -- defy the ability to prove conclusively one way or another.

One could point to any number of other highly creative people that were sex maniacs -- Pablo Picasso comes to mind. This guy was an incredible sexual athelete -- yet his creative output was astounding over many decades. Pablo's example definitely flies in the face of Freud's theory -- yet, it's just ancedotal evidence.

But the bottom line is, Freud's theory is extremely shakey, if not ultimately useless. There's no real way to prove or disprove it. So really, what can we do with it? It's interesting to think about, I suppose. Maybe we could all declare and oath of celibacy for six months and see how our own creative impulses improve (Hee! Hee!). Is anybody with me ... wait right here, I'm going to go explain this to my wife ....

[trailhound]

I go by (was it Edison?)'s distinction of 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration, needed for the Creative Force to arrive at Result.

I feel the sexual experience adds to the 1%, and detracts from the 99%.

I mean, getting her into the mood (I'm saying "her" since I'm a he. Could very well work out any which way for another person!) competes for your resources with that same 99%, and there is only so much that you have.

So in effect, it depends upon which is critical for you.

If it is inspiration you are running short on, go run wild on sex, you'll reap the harvest.

If it is the execution you're short on, for lack of the 99%, then I'd say there is definitely contention in this regard, that you need to resolve. Do it in the best manner possible, hey!

[Ken Korczak]

Has anyone else heard that saying: "Everything else we do in life is a substitute for sex." When I was a very young man, I thought this was true. But now that I am a 40-something, I no longer think it's true.

Some also say that sex is the ultimate act of creation. Thus, by eliminating sex, the human's natural tendency to create must burst out in other ways.

Here is another saying: "People who are celibate are extremely busy NOT having sex." I think this is true. Repressing the powerful sexual impulse takes a lot of energy.

Freud is famous for having said: "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." (After someone pointed out the ever present cigar in his own mouth, suggesting he had some kind of subconscious oral desire or fixation.)

Here's what I say: "Sometimes a penis is just a penis."

But I'm wondering, is there ever a time when a penis is a cigar? (If you think this is silly, where were you during the Clinton Administration?)

Also I say: "Sometimes a train just goes through a tunnel because it wants to get to the other side."

And I may further state: "Most of the time, people eat banannas because they simply enjoy fruit."

And about the Washington Monument and all those pointy church steeples that thrust into the air: "Maybe the designers of these constructions simply like the way these buildings look."

And I can't help but mention: "Maybe all those probes that happen during those alien abduction are just pure scientific research on behalf of the aliens. After all. sometimes a probe is just a probe -- right?"

I am compelled to add: "I think the aliens in those "Aliens" movies were true Freudian nightmares." Also, when Ripley risked her life to save the ship's cat, Jones, why do you think she had such an overwhelming desire to rescue her pussy...cat ... from a monster that had an alongated head, and which also thrust a tubular object out of it's mouth covered with white slime?"

Think upon these things, my friends. THINK!