[kater]

I watched the Roy Jones jr vs John Ruiz fight on Saturday night and afterwards they showed a stat about who had won multiple weight division titles - does being able to move up in weight divisions and win titles there, irrelevant of poor competition e;g Ruiz, make a fighter the greatest? Also with so many age groups in here can you say who you think is the greatest and why please :)

[juzzza]

Well, Jones is the first man since Fitzsimmons (sp?) to do it, and that was 100 years ago. He is regarded by most as the best pound for pound fighter and has been since a super middleweight, let alone a light heavyweight and now heavy weight.

To fight and beat someone 2 stone heavier than you, and whilst not the best champion, a champion none the less, is incredible. Jones has admitted himself however, that fighting Lennox Lewis would be a bridge too far.

There is only one greatest... And that is THE Greatest, Ali.

A boxing master and an incredible man.

[Jacquin]

The greatest champion?

James Figg

The father of boxing was retired from competition after 25 years as the undisputed Heavyweight champion. He was the first person to teach boxing as both a skill and a competetive art.

People like Mendoza and Ali have come and gone but there will only ever be one Figg.

J

[juzzza]

Figg was known as the 'Father of Boxing' but mainly for his marketing skills, he was considered by most to be a better swordsman that boxer.

A champion in 1719, I don't think he can be considered the greatest, for a start you should rate the greatest based on the quality of his opponents, athletic ability and so on. Fig was a bareknuckle fighter on the most part and circus attraction, beating the hell out of allcomers!!! (sorry all In My Humble Opinion, you can think who you like is the greatest ;) )

Ali would be too big and too fast, Lennox would seem like a giant!!!;)

[kahnovitch]

In boxing I'd go with Ali as the greatest heavyweight.
As for maintaining belts at different weights Thomas "Hitman" Hearns did a pretty good job for a while.

But if you want to consider other fighting arts my vote goes for Benny "The Jet" Urquidez.

Here's a snippet from his web-site.....

"The Jet’s" professional fighting record stands at a 200 plus wins and Zero (0) losses, his accomplished World Title Defense Record Stands at 63 wins and zero (0) losses, with "57 knockouts". Unprecedented in ring history, Benny "The Jet" is the only fighter to have retained Six World Championships in five weight divisions for 24 consecutive years. Coming out of retirement in 1993 at the age of 42 he again demonstrated his unique fighting style, defeating Yoshihisa Tagami the 25-year-old Japanese World Welterweight Champion to win the World Light Middle Weight Championship. "The Jet", is the longest reining World Champion of all Professional Sports in history."


more info at his website here...

http://www.bennythejet.com/meet.html

[Pantalimon]

I never saw Sugar Ray Robinson fight but I hear from people in the know he was the greatest. I used to like watching the Sugar Ray Lenoard vs Hagler fights as a kid, lenoard was like lighting with his hand speed.

Boxers are super fit and tough but the "sport" of boxing doesn't make the best fighters by a long chalk. Look at the "drawn" pantomine fight between Ali and that Russian wrestler. The rules wouldn't let the wrestler do loads of moves so he kept scuttling in crab like and licking the crap out of Ali's legs (ali never got a punch in. The wrestler would have submitted Ali in seconds in a "real" fight.

Just read this book about this guy can't remember his dam name now but he holds masses of strength and endurace records like 5,000 press-ups with a 50lb steel plate on his back etc. You see guys like this in the light to middle weight divisions boxing. They are these scarey roughed up looking bald white guys who no-one can knock out but never win a boxing fight cause they don't have the craft. In a real fight though these are the ones to run from especially like this guy who was ex para (thrown out for being too violent) and also had black belts and equil in many martial arts.

[Jacquin]

Originally posted by juzzza
Figg was known as the 'Father of Boxing' but mainly for his marketing skills, he was considered by most to be a better swordsman that boxer.

A champion in 1719, I don't think he can be considered the greatest, for a start you should rate the greatest based on the quality of his opponents, athletic ability and so on. Fig was a bareknuckle fighter on the most part and circus attraction, beating the hell out of allcomers!!! (sorry all In My Humble Opinion, you can think who you like is the greatest ;) )

Ali would be too big and too fast, Lennox would seem like a giant!!!;)

I still disagree, I think you have a point about the fact that the art he practiced not being modern boxing but he did reign supreme for many years. Ok he did have very good marketing skills and his school was without a doubt the most famous but that could simply be because he was who he was.

Yes he also fought with cudgels and swords as well but that simply makes him a more rounded martial artist in my book. Add this to the fact that his Jack Broughton was one of his students and I think you have a pugilist who could not only win enough fights to be undisputed as champion for over 2 decades but could teach too. To degrade his fights by saying they were circus attractions is a little unfair. Take his fight against Ned Sutton in 1727. Amongst the crowd was the Prime Minister, hardly what you'd expect at a local circus.

I'm sorry, I know I tend to get on my high horse when I start talking about fighting, I don't mean to be patronising...

J

[juzzza]

Ride away, on your high horse that is, all we can do is agree to disagree. And I don't feel patronised son. I am passionate about boxing because I am a boxer.

My main point is that Figg hardly had any decent competition during his legacy and certainly not of the athletic or craft ability that fighters now possess. I thought this debate is about the greatest, not the longest reining champ.

Ali, could walk over past champions and would be hard to beat by even current champs... All nonsense because it can never be proved.

[kater]

Yeah it was meant to be about the greatest, for me I think Sugar Ray Robinson is the Greatest - he fought 18 different world champions, beat Jake LaMotta in 5 out of 6 contests and in total won 175 out of 202 fights. Out of his 19 losses, 16 came after he returned to the ring in 1955 after a short retirement and five in his last fifteen fights when he was over 40 years old. I agree with Juzza it is impossible to compare because of the evolution of the sport, 70 fights is a huge career now let alone triple that. I think the money paid to fighters now is what has changed it - Lennox Lewis can afford to fight once or twice a year and get six or even seven figures now, there is no need and probably not the money out there for him to fight even eight or ten times a year. Just my two cents :D

[Crysania]

Honestly, that's just one sport I can NOT get into. My dad got me into everything else -- I'm like a guy when it comes to sports - but boxing... can't go there. Sorry! I will say... my dad likes Billy Conn - from the past: a middle weight. And he likes Roberto Duran more recently.