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Hemingway
April 2nd, 2003, 12:14 AM
Many of you are well aware of the theories that are commonly associated with Atlantis, but there is such little focus upon perhaps the greatest advanced civilization the earth has even known. I am reffering to the Rama Empire of somehwre near 8000B.C. supposedly a rival of Atlantis. The Rama Empire contains numerous texts in Sanskrit that depict their technology of amazingly advanced nature, such as flying machines, the art of invisibility, and many more futuristic machinery, below I am going to enclose a few translated quotations from books of ancient sanskrit from the Rama Empire (it's location is what we would now know as India.) and I'll also give an explanation of what the Vimana (the supposed ancient indian flying machines) have been described as.

The Vimanas - The Ramayana describes a Vimana as a double-deck, circular (cylindrical) aircraft with portholes and a dome. It flew with the speed of the wind and gave forth a melodious sound (a humming noise?). Ancient Indian texts on Vimanas are so numerous it would take several books to relate what they have to say. The ancient Indians themselves wrote entire flight manuals on the control of various types of Vimanas, of which there were basically four: the Shakuna Vimana, the Sundara Vimana, the Rukma Vimana and the Tripura Vimana.

There is a passage in the Ramayana which reads: The Puspaka car that resembles the Sun and belongs to my brother was brought by the powerful Ravan; that aerial and excellent car going everywhere at will.... that car resembling a bright cloud in the sky.".. and the King [Rama] got in, and the excellent car at the command of the Raghira, rose up into the higher atmosphere."

Many other terrible weapons are described, quite matter of factly, in the Mahabharata, but the most fearsome of all is the one used against the Vrishis.
The narrative records:
Gurkha flying in his swift and powerful Vimana hurled against the three cities of the Vrishis and Andhakas a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and fire, as brilliant as ten thousands suns, rose in all its splendor. It was the unknown weapon, the Iron Thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashesthe entire race of the Vrishnis and Andhakas.
It is important to note, that these kinds of records are not isolated. They can be cross-correlated with similiar reports in other ancient civilizations. The after-affects of this Iron Thunderbolt have an ominously recognizable ring. Apparently, those killed by it were so burnt that their corpses were unidentifiable. The survivors fared little better, as it caused their hair and nails to fall out.
Perhaps the most disturbing and challenging, information about these allegedly mythical Vihmanas in the ancient records is that there are some matter-of-fact records, describing how to build one. In their way, the instructions are quite precise.
In the Sanskrit Samarangana Sutradhara, it is written:

Strong and durable must the body of the Vihmana be made, like a great flying bird of light material. Inside one must put the mercury engine with its iron heating apparatus underneath. By means of the power latent in the mercury which sets the driving whirlwind in motion, a man sitting inside may travel a great distance in the sky. The movements of the Vimana are such that it can vertically ascend, vertically descend, move slanting forwards and backwards. With the help of the machines human beings can fly in the air and heavenly beings can come down to earth.
The Hakatha (Laws of the Babylonians) states quite unambiguously: The privilege of operating a flying machine is great. The knowledge of flight is among the most ancient of our inheritances. A gift from 'those from upon high'. We received it from them as a means of saving many lives.
More fantastic still is the information given in the ancient Chaldean work, The Sifrala, which contains over one hundred pages of technical details on building a flying machine. It contains words which translate as graphite rod, copper coils, crystal indicator, vibrating spheres, stable angles, etc.

Aik Haw
April 2nd, 2003, 10:42 PM
Isn't it odd Hemingway that the Chinese has stories of the Star People? We have lost nearly all those stories now though some still persist till today.

The one that probably everyone knows about is the legend of Shangri-la, where the selfish long livers in the City of Shangri-la terrorised the local population for so long, sending hundreds of thousands of people into the mines, devastating the local ecology in the process, and built Boats that ascended into the Heavens. The Yellow Emperor ( if you recount the deeds of the Yellow Emperor by the way he will have to live for over 500 years without rest just to fulfil everyone of them, so it is most likely most of the deeds were mythological ) according to legend after the Shangri-lans invaded the Yellow River Basin ordered that the "great weapons of old and the power of the time we walk the stars," be gathered and used to drive the Shangrilans out.

The part most people say but never actually find odd except for a verge of imagination people had in those times were the great arrows used. The great arrows were supposed to be the height of a man and could fly for over 10000 li, and as they fly fire trailed behind them, and they detonated upon contact. Though I am truly sceptical that this is anything more than a well constructed tale, some people believe this could be a missile. The Dark Rays were supposed to be cold invisible beams that freezes everything upon contact. The Hot rays were again invisible beams that melted everything on contact. The devices that did this were mounted on "Sky Boats" that were propelled by two stumpy tubes that "defied the pull of Earth."

What is greatly odd about the story of Shangrila is that the Emperor and the Generals watched from Xian when the battle took place in Shangrila, about 4000 km away. This is really odd in terms of myth as people don't usually think it possible to watch things in real time as it happens far away. The story also speak of the Heavenly Eye far above the earth that was smitten by the Shangrilans when the Han Imperium used it to spy on them by an "arrow so fierce." The irony is that the Eye was supposed to be so far away it cannot be seen.

There are eleven more legendary tales of the Great Boats. One tale was funny in that it says that the Boats, "travels in the spaces between space, soars the path between world and dreams." It also tells of Boats that fell out of the space and took forever to travel back home.

Odd eh?

Sammie
April 3rd, 2003, 03:56 AM
That's quite bizarre.

AH - when do these tales date from?? (apologies if you've already said, somewhere, and i just can't spot it! :))

kassimir funk
April 3rd, 2003, 05:33 AM
Here's something fun for ya about Atlantis.. it's not very thurough but it'll give ya an idea,

www.angelfire.com/hi/alhawk/atlanthira.html

Hemingway
April 3rd, 2003, 02:01 PM
This is probably the most comprehensive site on the ancient flying craft (Vimanas) http://www.crystalinks.com/vedic.html

The actual timeframe of the Rama Empire is really open to discussion, I believe the most common theory is about 4000, to 5000 B.C. Although most of the actual texts we have were not written until 500B.C.

It's interesting that their have been expeditions to Tibet and India to learn about the Rama Empire, such as Hitler in the 30's who oddly enough then created the Buzz Bomb, the first jet proppelled missle. Also it is known that at one time the United States was heavily interested in this information, this is especially interesting when considering one of the translated texts of sanskrit (they have not all been translated yet) speaks about the secrets of invisibility, leading some to believe that they may have been gaining information for the Philidelphia experiment (for those of you who don't know, it was a submarine that was meant to bend the light around itself, hence becoming invisible, and it did become invisible and when it reappeared men were melded into the top of the ship and bottom, very grotesque stuff).

If anyone is extremely interested in the Vimana subject I suggest finding a book by Childress, he has a few books about the subject and it's extremeley fascinating.

Eventine
April 3rd, 2003, 07:38 PM
I can't believe your using a pyschics homepage as a serious source of information!
Or that you believe the Philadelphia experiment actually happened.

If you look into the Philadelphia experiment you discover the ship in question was never anywhere near Philadelphia and surviving sailors from the ship think the whole things a joke.

In my opinion generally things like this take off when someone finds some information and uses about half of it as support for their argument. For example, the ship in question with the Philadelphia experiment was designed to be invisible. Invisible to magnetic mines via degaussing, not invisible to teh naked eye. However, you get a few half truths and some pranksters with an active imagination and you end up 60 years later with a stack of books, movies, websites all built on legend and not fact.

Feel free to start with the cries of Government cover ups anytime soon...

Poseidon
April 3rd, 2003, 08:56 PM
Eventine I believe he was simply skipping ahead a little, I'm pretty sure, or at least it sounded like to me that he meant invisibility to radar. Also as far as that link being a psychics page...what are you talking about! Most of this info is taken from Childress's book anyways, and this is all well documented information. Hemingway seems a little overzealous, but I think he seems pretty knowledgable, and doesn't eat up government cover ups which are more frequent than most know (example- The mind control experiments during the cold war).

As far as the sailors the surviving sailors saying it's a joke, you are seriously mistaken...for one thing you're saying survivors...so something indeed did happen...and it's well documneted that a few of the survivors were rendered into a state of insanity. Let me go over the Philidelphia experiment a little here.

The Philadelphia Experiment, otherwise known as Project Rainbow, has been a subject of long controversy and debate. It was an attempt by the Navy to create a ship that could not be detected by magnetic mines and-or radar.

There was also talk of invisibility projects and mind control experiments. The truth behind this project will never be known to the public. It is just one those triggers that we encounter that propels into awareness as who we are on a soul level.

However, results of these experiments became far different and much more dangerous than the Navy ever expected. Although the story itself seems too bizarre to be true, far too many coincidences have occurred for it to not be based upon some small iota of truth. The technical data that has also been presented upon the subject hold far too much credence to be ignored. Many of the stories associated with this infamous experiment are wild: whispers of men 'freezing' in time for months, rumors of men traveling through time, and horror stories of men becoming stuck in bulkheads or even the floor of the ship itself. (In the movie of the same name - the visual of the men being part above the deck - and part buried in the deck - is amazing. This sort of things has been done on 'X-Files' as well when they did a storyline about temporal anomalies.

In the 1930's Nikola Tesla got involved with a group with was experimenting with moving through the Time/Space continuum. In the early 1930's, the University of Chicago investigated the possibility of invisibility through the use of electricity.

In 1939 this project was moved to Princeton's Institute of Advanced Studies - this is not far from Philadelphia. There they were able to make small objects invisible. They presented this technology to the government. The military, because we were at war wanted to pursue it in their direction.

Tesla had come to the same conclusion that Einstein did that this technology if developed would not be used for the benefit of mankind.

In 1943 the government conducted a test using domestic animals on a ship. The ship that was eventually used for the experiment, the USS Eldridge, was commissioned at the New York Navy Yard on August 27,1943 (Department of the Navy). The animals were placed in metal cages on the USS Eldridge. The ship became invisible but when it materialized many of the animals were missing on had radiation and other burn marks on them. Humans were not to be tested.

Yet on August 12, 1943 the USS Eldridge with a full crew aboard reportedly underwent the Philadelphia Experiment. The men did not know what was to happen. The generators were fired up. The switches were thrown. The ship disappeared and all seemed well.

However, others claim that the experiment took place on October 28, 1943. Substantial evidence points to the October date as being more accurate. The Navy has released the Eldridge's deck log and war diary and at no time was the Eldridge in Philadelphia. However, the records could have easily been changed.

The Eldridge's war diary reads as such: The Eldridge remained in New York and the Long Island Sound until September 16, when it left for Bermuda. From September 18 to October 15, it underwent training and sea trials. On October 18, it left in a convoy for New York and remained there until November 1. From November 1 to the 2, it went on a convoy to Norfolk and on November 3 left in a convoy for Casablanca. The Eldridge arrived in Casablanca on November 22 and stayed there until November 29, when it left for New York again in another convoy. The Eldridge arrived in New York on December 17.

From December 17 to December 31, it traveled to Norfolk with four other ships (Department of the Navy). Although this is not the entire war log, it is the log of the ship during the suspected time the experiment took place (October 28, as mentioned above).

It would seem that the Navy never did experiments on the Eldridge at any time, but the government has been known to cover up because of national security before. An example of such a situation would be the Manhattan project. This secret project was the building of the atomic bomb and no word was ever said about it until it was obvious that we had an atomic bomb.

The Navy, in a search for a plausible answer, has suggested that perhaps the Philadelphia Experiment was confused with experiments done attempting invisibility to magnetic mines. This was a process known as degaussing.

Eventine
April 3rd, 2003, 10:25 PM
As far as the sailors the surviving sailors saying it's a joke, you are seriously mistaken...for one thing you're saying survivors...so something indeed did happen...and it's well documneted that a few of the survivors were rendered into a state of insanity


Actually, I shouldn't have used the word survivors. I was referring to sailors from the Eldridge who hadn't yet passed away from old age, natural causes, etc. I haven't seen any of the documentation regarding insane sailors though - in fact, that's the first I've heard of it.




It would seem that the Navy never did experiments on the Eldridge at any time, but the government has been known to cover up because of national security before

As I said, let the conspiracy theories roll.



The Navy, in a search for a plausible answer, has suggested that perhaps the Philadelphia Experiment was confused with experiments done attempting invisibility to magnetic mines

I think you'll find that's what they always maintained.

I don't believe it happened. You guys obviously do, and I'm pretty sure that neither side will convince the other, so I might just back out of this conversation now before I get into an argument no one can win. That's the problem with arguments like this - one sie says "You have no evidence", the other side says "It's a cover up", and who knows who's right?

Aik Haw
April 3rd, 2003, 11:13 PM
The stories you post here are very strange, almost as strange as the odd reaction by the Chinese government, usually very keen to inform people about local archaeological and scientific discovery including about those damn totem poles, and the Chinese Universities, usually happy to hold public media conferences on post-graduate research work, suddenly converging onto this archaeological site 300km south of Xi'an, placing it under strict no-go area, have this helicopters, choppers etc.. flying around with every single usually loquacious professors just saying "No comment".

The irony about their reaction is that the site was supposed to be one of the ports of the legendary Great Ships. Well, I can see why they want to be quiet about it if it is true since the knowledge is supposed only to be passed down to the Chinese, not anyone else.

However, it is most likely just myth and nonsense, most unworthy for a new nation founded upon elimination of superstition and celebration of rational and logical thinking to waste effort to pursue. Think about it, if the Great Ships did stride the sky, wouldn't more than one nation record about the Great Ships. Instead, China and by default Japan are the only two with this legend as well as the many Great Wheel that span the heavens. Also, if we are as legend say Descent of Heaven would not our genetic material differ radically ( OK, it does differ quite a lot but it is only because Orientals try not to intermarry and have not actually mass contacted other races for over 15000 years ) from other races. Also, if the Dragon and Sky Lords were our ancestors, would we not have the capacity to morph as they did? Above all, WHO the heck would want to lose technology as awesome as what the Shangrilans or the Yellow Emperor reputedly had?

Lastly, if you think about it, 6000 years have passed since we last used our technology on any mass scale if legend can be trusted ( I still think it is legend, nothing else ). Our brothers sitting alongside the Heavenly Emperor and his host of great ships that span the heavens and worlds that resound in the name of the One Imperium that Rules the Sky should have the common decency as expounded to every member of our race to at least say hello when they bypass us. Clearly, they have not, and no, I do not think that strange lights or big fireballs that flatten forest or the recent one in Jubei that caused the entire area now to have the wierdest magnetic fluctuation in the entire world and is still under investigation by Shanghai Institute of Technology as to how the heck it can happen is a friendly "hello" or indicates anything other than natural phenomenons yet to be explained!!

And more importantly, as our brothers zip past us in the heavens as some more poetically inclined people like to think on a frequent basis, and with the apparent defense pact we had with them, why the heck did they not (a) defend our race against the Mongolians, surely a small dark ray that freezes would do wonders (b) defend our race against the "tall pale walkers whose hair are red and eyes coldly blue" that according to our legend we drove together out of China during the Opium War. A small arrow from their great boat would do the trick ya know.

No, clearly all evidence points to one thing, this is myth and nothing else. If there are any truth behind these series of Age 1- 2 myth it may be based upon early flight attempts by the Chinese people. Now, this makes more sense as Chinese did try flying once they discovered rocket propulsion technology. In fact, we know for a fact that during the period of the Warring Kingdom and during the war of the Chou and Shang Dynasty small flying machines were made that allowed people to glide from tops of cliffs down towards the enemies, dropping small fire bombs. We also know that rocket chairs were made to propel small gliders like this to certain altitudes than letting the bombers drop the bomb down.

We also know for a fact that the First Emperor decreed that all of these flying machines ceased to be used and the design destroyed due to three decreed reasons (a) the Emperor is the highest being in the land. If the Emperor is not in flight, no other humans should be in flight (b) humans place is on Earth, not soaring between cliffs or in the sky (c) the mortality rate due to this machines are unacceptably high as people crash into cliff walls or get detonated before they can lift off from the rocket propulsion chairs. This, the First Emperor decreed only proves that man's place is on Earth, not in Heaven.

The great arrows may be based on the first small missiles the Chinese tried to build during the Chou wars. We know that the later dynasties banned the use of this technology as well as scrape their design even though by modern standards the weapon has no more power than an average grenade even though it can fly for about three li before detonating. ( one of these missiles however have been discovered, and they are pathetic compared even compared to WWI missiles )