[Rob B]

Originally posted by FicusFan
No I think that is totally opposite what she says. She basically says don't waste your time with some fairy tale image of god. Work for yourself and those you love because your inattention to detail while you are praying to some imaginary figure will kill you and everyone you love. Her god of chaos is not a god that has anything to do with the human race in a positive manner. In many ways I thought she could have been talking about evolution and the constant need to change and adapt to survive, something that no amount of praying will help.
I meant internalizing God in the sense that as a member of Earthseed you don't have to go to church and worship in the traditional sense. And as a member of the human race the way we/they adapt to change can be a way to internalize God.

[FicusFan]

Originally posted by FitzFlagg

I meant internalizing God in the sense that as a member of Earthseed you don't have to go to church and worship in the traditional sense. And as a member of the human race the way we/they adapt to change can be a way to internalize God.

I can see that and I agree with you.

I took it more at face value though. I thought she was trying to say that the concept of god was no longer useful to humanity, and she was trying to wean people away from it.

[Erfael]

I see much of the God is Change concept and Earthseed not only as a philosophy for reacting to change, but also anticipating it and shaping it by doing things to prepare for it. Much of what Lauren did through the first half of the book seemed to fit with this view of things.

God is Change. Change is inevitable.

As such, we much shape the changes as they come to us by being prepared enough not to be taken unawares by the change and to come through them in a way that is favorable.

It will do no good to pray to God to make the hurricane not come. It will do no good to pray to God that the hurricane do no damage or hurt anyone close to us. What we can do is anticipate the hurricane, make sure that we are prepared for it in every way possible. We can commit to help our neighbors and assume that they will help us. In preparing as fully as we can for the hurricane, we have the most chance of shaping the change in such a way that it will turn out favorably for at least some portion of the group.

I think the quote at the end of the book encapsulates Lauren's views on Change. Not everyone will survive necessarily, but those that do will thrive.

The denial of the neighborhood people is mentioned more than once. They deny that change is coming. They don't prepare for it as that would be admitting its approach. If not for Lauren's preparations for the change, we can assume that none of them would have survived.

The largest aspect of "shape God" is anticipating what is coming and preparing oneself to meet that in a way that the self or some portion of a group will be able to survive.

More than once the point was raised that someone "died for us." This brings to Lauen's attention that perhaps not everyone is meant to survive. Perhaps the destiny of some is to meet death in order that others should survive.

Enough for now. I enjoyed this book, and it beats the many-hundred pagers that we've been tossing around the last few months. Guess I need to go read Tigana now. Only running a week or so late this month. Erf.

[Erfael]

And Erf has the usual stifling effect on the conversation!!!

[Rob B]

Ficus, good point, but I'll take it one note further.

I think she was saying there is a fundamental need for religion, but the God(s) and religions that were/are prevalent at the time of the novel are either forgotton or not relavent.

Maybe not a need for God but a need for god, if you catch my drift. That simple act of capitilazing the word sets a certain belief about it before you can really think about it. "god" is more identifiable, I think.

In thinking about this more, I feel part of the reason she came to Earthseed (or did it come to her, divine intervention? thats another point) because she felt the world was changing, and as change is one of the only things that stays the same. Her God of change is what she sees as most needed by people of her world. I also don't think she could have come to this decision or what you would like to call it, unless she was the child of a religious man. She was so close to it, that despite her indifference towards the tenets and teachings, she could formulate what her religion needed.

Erf-the discussion continues, but you've noted some really good points.

Ok, that's enough of a caffine inspired rant for now.

[Kamakhya]

I kind of thought her god is change thing was pretty cool. Instead of relying on a personified (and stagnant) deity, Lauren saw that god is the force behind life, the universe and everything, which is change. Her idea is very similar to chaos theory, that is that at every moment there are an infinite number of choices and each one will result in a different result. Thus, instead of resigning oneself to the fate doled out by a deity, once can embrace the choices, be prepared for a variety of potential outcomes, etc. In some ways, you could take her god is change in a more pagan light and say it is equivalent to god = nature. The nature of the universe is change. Even entropy is change.

Fitz: yes, I think god vs. God is a good point and relates to what I said.

Just some thoughts,

Kamakhya

[LordBalthazar]

Of the half-dozen or so books I've read so far as part of this group, Parable of the Sower is by far my favorite. Butler creates an effectively unnerving world in which American society has degenerated into an improverished, crime-ridden shadow of its former self - and not so far removed from some of the desperate and dangerous living conditions many have to endure today. As I was reading the description of the armed, fenced-in communities, I was reminded of an acquaintance's tales of his former homeland of South Africa. He described going back every year and seeing the security gates surrounding residences get higher and higher, the local news reports offering darker and more disturbing reports of the violent crime that eventually forced he and many of his friends to move away. The novel is frightening because it offers a glimpse at the possible. Had I read Parable of the Sower two years ago, I may have agreed it was farfetched - but this post-Katrina reader had no problem believing a government could prove so ineffectual in helping its citizens.

Very bleak, very frightening but, in the end, a very satisfying read.