[Rob B]

Originally posted by Nimea
And yeah, the story really is creepy in parts. I thought that the whole scenery was wonderfully set and Tobin was a fabulously written child. I felt so sorry for him/her. You just knew that at some time the conflict would come between being a boy or a girl and yet it kind of became a normal childhood.
Yes, I really did like the presentation of the dark tower in which Tobin's mother killed herself. A very haunted part of thier abode, and so close. Tobin's natural curiosity about the tower and the tension Flewelling presented were just right.

Originally posted by Nimea
Yet, there are already some things to discuss in this book:
for example Tobin wanting a doll. Heh? Is that a clear sign for being a girl?
Being myself a girl and having never wished for a doll, I can't really say so.
What do you all think about that? Or was it more like Tobin wanting one because of his/her mother?
I think the want of the doll was, yes, because of his/her mother. I also think it was a none-too-subtle hint at Tobin's true gender. I just took the whole doll thing as an illustration of what a typical girl of that age would want.

Originally posted by Nimea
Or Tobin and his/her relation to Ki. There were some suptle hints, yet . . . or Tobin being uneasy with girls.
Interesting question will be, how will Tobin deal with that? Or will there be some confusion on her side? What if Ki is really dead - ehm, yeah, I am not so sure there.
I think Ki may be dead (or seriously maimed), unfortunately. The way Arkoniel was greiving, in the brief glimpse, leads me to believe this. I hope it isn't the case, but I could see it as a way for Tobin to have Morin as a squire, throwing more complications into the potential court intrigue.

[FicusFan]

Originally posted by Erfael
FicusFan, I think Eventine is referring to the movie The Others with Nicole Kidman, which was made 2 or 3 years ago where there is a family consisting of a mother and two children living in a haunted house, primarily haunted by a young boy ghost. A very interesting movie. I would reccommend you check it out. Erf.

Oh thanks. I do remember seeing the ads on TV for it (NK in a long gown), but I never got the name of the movie. It didn't appeal to me from the ads, and I only go to one or maybe two movies a year so I missed it.

[FicusFan]

Originally posted by Fitz
One thing I like about this series, so far, is that we all know how it will end. We know Tamir will wind up becoming the Queen, and to a lesser extent, it was pretty obvious how this installment would end. As soon as I read Lhel's proclomation about the blood, that sealed the deal, for me.

I think its somewhat refreshing that the ending is know, the author doesn't have to really play around with a mystery aspect of whether or not the hero/heroine will succeed. By knowing the destination of the story's journey, I think Flewelling can explore more interesting aspects of the story.


There is no mystery about what happens because the tale has already been told, albeit very, very briefly - 1 maybe 2 paragraphs. The story of Queen Tamir the Second is part of the first book, Luck in the Shadows, in the Nightrunners trilogy (page 163).

I agree she can explore other matters, but she had already let the cat out of the bag and it would have seemed silly to pretend otherwise in this book.


I knew the blood referred to when she started her period, but I didn't expect that the first 'Tobin' would be basically killed and a replacement 'Tobin' would be pushed in his place so quickly. We took most of the first book getting to know him, and sharing his inner world. I just felt cheated that it was done so quickly and so soon.

[FicusFan]

Originally posted by Nimea

About Bone Doll’s Twin:
Yet, there are already some things to discuss in this book:
for example Tobin wanting a doll. Heh? Is that a clear sign for being a girl? Being myself a girl and having never wished for a doll, I can't really say so. What do you all think about that? Or was it more like Tobin wanting one because of his/her mother?


I took that to be a reaction he had because of the the doll his mother had. She made lots of them, but always carried one specific one with her. It was the doll that Tobin ended up with after her death.

I think Tobin was drawn to it because we found out later that his mother dug up his brother's dead body from under the oak. She defleshed it (remember the rotten smell in the upper rooms that Tobin's nurse smelt). Then she took the dead child's bones broke them up and sewed them into the doll. Tobin was connected to brother spiritually and I think the physical aspect of the bones also called to him- but he didn't know it was the bones and not the doll. Later when he was checking out other dolls, because of the feelings he had for those of his mother, his father's reaction made dolls a thrill, a thing of shame and of guilt. Just the right stuff to start a fascination in Tobin's mind.

There may have also been some 'girlyness' guiding him (though his female gene donors were warriors and sometimes mad murderers), but not all girls like dolls. I think LF did a good job developing the story and Tobin enough so that it could be either or both or somethig else that is the reason behind his being drawn to dolls.

Originally posted by Nimea
Or Tobin and his/her relation to Ki. There were some suptle hints, yet . . . or Tobin being uneasy with girls.


Again I think that both are probably explainable because of the age Tobin is at for a boy, and because he is really a girl. Most kids tend to hang out with their own sex (before puberty), and often dislike the other sex. He also could have been developing into a gay man -- now wouldn't that be confusing :confused: .

He also could have been moved by his female feelings, because he does start his period very soon after they meet, so his inner girl is closer to puberty, than the outer boy ??? :confused:

LF sets things up and tells the story which seems simple, but is actually pretty convoluted.

Originally posted by Nimea
Interesting question will be, how will Tobin deal with that? Or will there be some confusion on her side? What if Ki is really dead - ehm, yeah, I am not so sure there. And right now, I can't read it again, for I lend the book to a friend.


I hope Ki doesn't die that would suck. I am sure s/he will have a hard time figuring out his/her feelings for a lot of things and people in book 2. I wonder if they will tell Ki (if he lives) or if he will be kept in the dark. Then it will seem that two boys are close and getting closer. The Fantasy version of Victor/Victoria :)

[FicusFan]

Originally posted by Nimea
Another thing: I enjoyed - as you can guess - BDT extremely. But still I am somewhat reluctant to try Fkewelling's other trilogy.
Can someone give me one more nudge there? FicusFan?

:)

Ok. Not sure what to say to push you over the edge :)

The story is based around two main characters: Alec of Kerry a young rustic (wandering hunter) who is out on his own, and Seregil of Rhiminee an exiled noble from the land of Auren. There is a mystery about his background that is explained in book 2 (Stalking Darkness ), and all of book 3 (Traitor's moon) deals with it (as well as other issues). He makes his home in Skala and works as an agent for a highly placed member of the queen's government. He is also closly tied with the wizards. In fact he may work for a wizard -- sorry I forget it has been awhile since I read it.

Seregil travels around as a bard, and as other wild and nefarious characters to gather information about the political and magical plots that the Queen's enemies develop to remove her from the throne. The story of the book: a specific group with an agenda to remove the queen plots to do so with the help of some of the evil wizards, using some magical items I think. A pretty standard story, but the excution is any thing but standard.

Alec and Seregil meet in a dungeon and eventually Alec agrees to become Seregil's apprentice. He travels back to the capital (which is described in much more living detail than the brief sketch of a capital in BDT) with Seregil, while having fun, dangerous and thrilling adventures.

Their lives are threatened, they deal with both good and bad wizards. There are also personal dislikes and professional jealousies, so you are not always sure who is really a bad guy. There are also non-magical bad guys, the deluded and other good guys who help out. LF has simply great minor characters.

I think book one ends with them being discredited to the queen by their enemies and they escape town one step ahead of the hangman. Book 2 is their living life undercover from both friend and foe. They get sucked back into the politics of Skala to try to prove their innocence and to help protect Skala from / headoff the coming war. Alec also has a secret background that he was unaware of, and that comes out as well as Seregil's. Their realtionship changes. Book 3 takes them to Auren on a diplomatic mission to aid Skala during the war. The mission is complicated by Seregil's past.

The writing is vivid, the characters are great, the worldbuilding is detailed and interesting, the dialog is good and the story is fast paced and interesting. LF is on my list of authors whose books are a 'must buy'.

I read the stories in the fall of 1999 I think (but did some skimming just now to try to give you a feeling for the books).
I am sure there were things I didn't like about the books, but I only remember the good aspects. What stands out to me 4 years later is the characters, their relationships, the descriptions of the capital -specifically the Street of Lanterns/Lights, and of Seregil's home and staff who are like family.

The only real complaint I have is that it ended, and that to me LF didn't resolve the story completely. I wanted to spend time in Kerry and learn more about Alec's past (as she did in book 3 with Seregil and Auren). I was so devoted to the first trilogy that BDT sat on my shelf for two years just because it was not about the characters in the first series.

Hope that helps and didn't give too much away.:D

[Nevyn]

I think that Flewelling has done a very good job of writing a complicated plot into a comfortable reading experience . I particularly liked how Tobin's world came to life after the arrival of Ki . The wizards were great and I couldn't get enough of Lhel , being that she showed that there was a good deal more to magic than the more rigid existance of the likes of Iya and Arkoniel . I wonder though whether Arkoniel will end up as some kind of hybrid wizard , could be interesting .

About when Tobin found out he's a she , I think she was too confused at the time to feel anything . You have to remember that she is only eleven years old I'm not sure it would have really hit home just yet .

[Nimea]

FicusFan, thanks! :) I decided to buy them as soon as possible.

Nevyn, I too think that she was just too confused . . . and I think the book ended at just the right moment.

Just had a thought, but have to go. Later than . . .

[Rob B]

Hey folks thought you'd like to know...

I've been going back and forth over e-mail with Lynn Flewelling and she had a couple things to say.

About the fact that it is not that well documented the book is a first in a trilogy:

And please pass on to your group that the decision not to label it as the first of a series was not my own.I'm afraid that was out of my hands.

About the book being selected as the BOTM:
How exciting!

She also said:
I'd be happy to answer any questions that come up.

I asked her about Tobins seemingly quick acceptance of her true sexual identity, since it was a point of contention with a couple of us: What I said:
Tobin acceptance her true sexual identity. I think for all of the magic and secrets entailed in keeping it hidden, she seemed to accept it rather quickly. Will this be explored in more depth in Hidden Warrior?
She hasn't, and it will.

If you all have other questions for her, drop 'em in here and I can send them off to her in the next few days.

It's late and I have to get up early,
Fitz/Rob

[Eventine]

I've been thinking a bit more about this book.
I felt the focus moved well from the whole creepy kid/haunted house to the boyhood friends theme - Ki changed the way I thought about the characters a lot, mainly because it made me realise how screwed up Tobin could end up being.
Will LF go down the path of having the boyhood friends become lovers (there was a bit of foreshadowing of this with the whole mention of the soldiers "bunking" together)?
How will Ki respond when he finds out his best friend isn't quite the man he thought he was (assuming he hasn't carked it)?
How will Tobin treat Ki now? Will he start to get interested in guys and make an advance (in male form) on Ki? If so, will Ki feel obliged to respond based on Tharrin's comments about his relationship with Tobin's Dad?

I'm also wondering how the hell you break something like this to the court. "OK, this guy you knew is actually a girl we disguised with magic and now she's your Queen. Cheers". doesn't quite work does it?

Also, on the whole doll issue, I was a bit confused about what Lf was trying to get across. Was it a girl/doll type of thing, or was it an aassociation with the mother type of thing? Given the context (describing the other toys, toys in bed), I think it was a girl/doll type of thing. The mothers dolls really just freaked Tobin out at that stage.

I'm also interested in what the role of Brother will be in the next books. Helpful friend? Evil Demon? Fluffy cuddle toy?

[Ladijen]

I honestly have no criticisms of this book ... my only problem is that I wish I already owned the next one in the series! The cliffhanger ending is well done and I can't wait to find out what happens next ... and I hope that Ki is not dead. :( I didn't find Tobin's response to finding out her true identity at all odd--she really wasn't given much time to feel anything at all before being subjected to more magic ... her numbness to everything was very believable, in my opinion.

Fitz, I do not have questions for Ms. Flewelling, but please pass on my praise and admiration; I am a new fan of her work. :)