Giarc
October 25th, 2000, 12:15 PM
Well, I just read the article by Carrie someone-or-other on this site with a heading rather similar to the one I've used for this topic. And I thought it was an interesting topic for discussion.
My feeling is....maybe. (Ha! now there's courage...laying it all on the line here... http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif )
Actually, I partially agree with her first point about fantasy covers. But having said that, covers should reflect the world contained within IMO. If there are monsters, swords, and magic in the book...and that's reflected on the cover by dark scenes featuring monsters, magic lightning etc then I say get over it. Monsters are dark, scary critters. Life is hard, move on. As for overly busty women featured on the front I'll accept that's a valid point. I personally enjoy that part (nothing like a good dose of visual vitamins http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif ... I'm gonna fry for that one huh?) but I'll also note that blokes on those covers are usually bulging with muscles and often lack shirts etc....if we're talking equal rights....what about topless women on those covers too? http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif (j/k) I think it works both ways but the fact is that sex sells....advertisers have used this for every product on earth. It's a fact of the capitalist world.
Ok, the other point I agree with (more fully) is the lack of subtlety employed by feminist authors. By hammering home the same message on every page you're simply going to alienate the very people you presumably want to send the message to. Preaching to the converted is a waste of time so perhaps they ought to remember that not every male is bent on domination of womenkind. Some of us rather appreciate them for their intelligence and personalities, as well as their far superior aesthetic values http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif Now I know this is far from pc so I'm going to defend that by asking what, exactly, is wrong with appreciating the visual appeal of the other gender? Note that there is a very large distinction between that and objectifying a person.
Okay, now to my real gripe. I simply and utterly disagree that there isn't a plethora of strong female characters, and leads, in the modern fantasy literature. Anne McCaffrey for example blurs the line between SF and fantasy but I can't think of a single book of hers without a female lead. Jordan comes in for criticism for having strong female leads that are stupid. Well, I'd agree they're idiots but no worse than the blokes in the book. They're also critical to the plot and save the men more than once. Goodkind also has a strong female lead who gets tough when she has to but isn't afraid of being in love either. Both Richard and Kahlan get positively gushy at times but is there anything actually wrong with that? Lets face facts, fantasy worlds are based on mediaevel earth. Women were oppresed back then (wrongly). Often fantasy worlds are dominated by blokes as a consequence. But if you want to see women enduring tragic times in suitably stoic fashion perhaps you should read Paul Kearney's series and witness the fate of one Heria. Not nice but she gets her vengeance the only way she can. Have you never read Guy Gavriel Kay? His works feature multiple women leads and characters who are far from idiots or damsels in distress. I haven't even touched on the Marion Zimmer Bradleys, Mary Stewarts, etc.
To conclude, I say that fantasy is far from being a boys club, and that its outstanding asset is the lack of influence from overly PC zealots.
*grin* Now to manfully run for the bunkers and hope I make it in before this turns to custard! http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif
[This message has been edited by Giarc (edited October 25, 2000).]
My feeling is....maybe. (Ha! now there's courage...laying it all on the line here... http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif )
Actually, I partially agree with her first point about fantasy covers. But having said that, covers should reflect the world contained within IMO. If there are monsters, swords, and magic in the book...and that's reflected on the cover by dark scenes featuring monsters, magic lightning etc then I say get over it. Monsters are dark, scary critters. Life is hard, move on. As for overly busty women featured on the front I'll accept that's a valid point. I personally enjoy that part (nothing like a good dose of visual vitamins http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif ... I'm gonna fry for that one huh?) but I'll also note that blokes on those covers are usually bulging with muscles and often lack shirts etc....if we're talking equal rights....what about topless women on those covers too? http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif (j/k) I think it works both ways but the fact is that sex sells....advertisers have used this for every product on earth. It's a fact of the capitalist world.
Ok, the other point I agree with (more fully) is the lack of subtlety employed by feminist authors. By hammering home the same message on every page you're simply going to alienate the very people you presumably want to send the message to. Preaching to the converted is a waste of time so perhaps they ought to remember that not every male is bent on domination of womenkind. Some of us rather appreciate them for their intelligence and personalities, as well as their far superior aesthetic values http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif Now I know this is far from pc so I'm going to defend that by asking what, exactly, is wrong with appreciating the visual appeal of the other gender? Note that there is a very large distinction between that and objectifying a person.
Okay, now to my real gripe. I simply and utterly disagree that there isn't a plethora of strong female characters, and leads, in the modern fantasy literature. Anne McCaffrey for example blurs the line between SF and fantasy but I can't think of a single book of hers without a female lead. Jordan comes in for criticism for having strong female leads that are stupid. Well, I'd agree they're idiots but no worse than the blokes in the book. They're also critical to the plot and save the men more than once. Goodkind also has a strong female lead who gets tough when she has to but isn't afraid of being in love either. Both Richard and Kahlan get positively gushy at times but is there anything actually wrong with that? Lets face facts, fantasy worlds are based on mediaevel earth. Women were oppresed back then (wrongly). Often fantasy worlds are dominated by blokes as a consequence. But if you want to see women enduring tragic times in suitably stoic fashion perhaps you should read Paul Kearney's series and witness the fate of one Heria. Not nice but she gets her vengeance the only way she can. Have you never read Guy Gavriel Kay? His works feature multiple women leads and characters who are far from idiots or damsels in distress. I haven't even touched on the Marion Zimmer Bradleys, Mary Stewarts, etc.
To conclude, I say that fantasy is far from being a boys club, and that its outstanding asset is the lack of influence from overly PC zealots.
*grin* Now to manfully run for the bunkers and hope I make it in before this turns to custard! http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif
[This message has been edited by Giarc (edited October 25, 2000).]