[Sammie]

Just wanted to add Agent's comment off the lost thread:

Posted by Evil Agent:
I started the "Greatest Fantasy Tale Ever Told" Thread, mostly in fun to see what would happen...

It's now actually turning into a pretty entertaining little story, and it keeps me in suspense all the time! It's great.

I would invite more people to participate in it, so if you want to then go ahead! All I ask is that you at least read the whole thing closely first, so that you can keep the story's continuity and not make any accidental contradictions....

Thanks!

-Evilest of Agents

[e-Morgana]

Originally posted by Holbrook
Fun threads and structured ones room for both in my opinion, I have worked on both sorts in the past.
I SO wanted to jump in and have a word here, but unfortunately time didn't permit and besides.....Holbrook, you said it more eloquently than I could have. :D

To lay Neffertiti's concerns to rest, if you look at the stories already completed in the Hub, or those still being written, you will see that there is a huge variety of subject matter and style. The last thing we want to do is limit what kind of tales are being created here (well apart from following the general forum rules of course). They don't HAVE to be funny and light hearted, they don't HAVE to be serious. As we've already seen, there are some very talented writers amongst us. Their stories can be light-hearted fun, thought provoking, or even tragic at times....they range from science fiction to militaristic themes to fairy tales to fantasy....and lots more besides.

Yes - some stories need some research and hard work to be viable. But others are purely for fun and enjoyment. It's really up to the individual what kind of story they'd like to be involved in.

I hope that helps a bit. :D

As for Sheepie's suggestions - they sound like a lot of fun as well. :D

Perhaps something could be worked out for the 'roll down' idea. What if the last poster duplicated their final line in a second post. It would then be left to the next person's integrity, not to peek at the rest of the story, and just work off that single line. I (or one of the other mods) could go though intermittently and get rid of all these single line posts, so that the story could continue uninterrupted. What do you think of that?

[Sammie]

Originally posted by Rocket Sheep
There can be threads dedicated to fun for casual people who can't be bothered reading back, so long as it is obvious which threads those are. I like this idea. :)

[Scarlett O'Hara]

Nerfertiti - you say you have no writing talent and if you wrote, your input would not be perfect. I for one, trust me on this, have found that if you write with other writers who are BETTER than yourself, you find a way to pull yourself up the quality ladder. The other writers have a way of setting a standard bar that we as individuals try to achieve.

Bottom line? It all boils down to common respect for others. Before, during, and after the writing process.

Pam

a.k.a Scarlett

[Neffertiti]

Thank you :) This had to be said. I understand that the reverse has not been said. But this point was getting lost in the arguments. It is out in the open now, there is room for everyone. Your above comments will go a long way into encouraging others who are not 'writers' to try their hand at this.

I can more than live with that! :D

[Cnaeus Valerius]

As to the concepts raised, some stories are intended to be nothing more than a sort of free-for-all game. They are fun to read and it is fun to participate in them. Other stories, however, are serious in the sense that those working on them are putting effort into crafting a work of art, a tapestry of words. Part of the fun in these cases is keeping track of the entire storyline and doing the research (or logical “imagineering” in the case of the sci-fi stories) to make the story work. The fact of the matter is, if you ever want to have a story published there will be a certain level of effort and commitment required. This same level of effort is what can be found in some of the collaborative story threads. The stories I am working on have involved quite literally hundreds of behind the scenes PMs. I imagine the other stories have muc the same going on behind the scenes. Is that a lot of work? Yes. It is fun? Yes. Are we producing some well-crafted stories? By all reports, yes we are. With this in mind I hope others can see why the authors of those stories would not appreciate someone putting a figurative foot in the middle of the sandcastle. Does this mean those authors would not welcome others? Certainly not! As long as those others are willing to write within the established framework of the storyline. If a person is not willing to write within the framework of the storyline one wonders what would be the point of posting in the thread? The collaborative stories are sort of a game. All games have rules – you cannot play checkers on a Risk board – and the polite thing to do is to ask the rules of the game before joining. The equally polite thing to do is to share those rules when someone asks - hopefully you can see by all those PMs I mentioned that there is quite a bit of sharing already going on!

I know this might sound intimidating, but just think of it as a learning experience and chance to grow in your own writing. Speaking for myself, my writing skills have grown by leaps and bounds working in, and reading, these collaborative stories!

Those are my thoughts on things.

Cheers
Cnaeus Valerius

[Sammie]

Ok - this is all getting out of hand - let's see if we can't clear matters up:

The issue seems to be that although everyone is happy for there to be some spontaneous free-for-all threads, there is also a wish for some more serious 'word craft' to be allowed to exist uninterferred with. The problem is this - if the site officially acknowledges that this is 'serious' work, not play, by letting you set limits on who may participate, then we are put in a dilemma - because there is a rule forbidding people from posting chunks of their own work straight into the forums. Once you exclude other members, this is effectively what you are doing. It's against the rules.

So in the eyes of the site - if any of these stories is a researched, well planned, serious writing exercise, why is it in the forums? Two possible reasons. The less favourable would be that you simply find it an easy media to work in. I'm sure everyone understands that that would not be sufficient reason for the admins to allow it. The second reason, which i choose to believe is the case, is that you wish other members to enjoy reading your work. But in this case, your stories are indistinguishable from those that members submit via the official channels. The rule is that if you wish other members to see your own work then it must be submitted via official channels.

On the other hand - those threads that are fun most definitely should be for all members. There are no legit grounds for excluding anyone.

Comments welcome - constructive criticism welcome - alternative suggestions very welcome. But please remember that this is not a democracy - in the end we are all here courtesy of the site owner - and his was the final decision in this matter.

[Sammie]

Then why is it on the boards?

I suggest that in future any pair with a story idea they wish to work on together completes each section in private and submits it to the site via the normal channels.

Scarlett - you clearly don't want anyone else to join in with your and Holbrook's tale - that's fair enough, except it begs the question of why you have posted it on a public forum to begin with?


Really this is very simple:

A limited author effort of any kind is a 'private' effort. We do not allow private work to be posted direct to the forums; it must be sent via the submissions link.

A story that any member may post in is a 'public' effort. These are welcomed in this forum. Any member wishing to post must respect the story so far, and any thoughts expressed in the title post. No one is required to be a 'writer', or to have researched their efforts, or to make a commitment to continue to participate.

I honestly feel this arguement is just going in circles - please don't argue the above points any further - they ARE set in stone - the forum owner has approved them and all admins involved in the discussion were in agreement with them. Ultimately, neither point is any different from the pre-existing site policies.

If anyone wishes to complain, or disagree, feel free to send a message to any of the admins. It sha'n't be discussed on the boards any further.

On the other hand if anyone has any genuine questions about this forum - feel free to ask.

Sammie.

[Holbrook]

What Scarlett said is true, the matter of research has been blown out of proportion, By research I mean if my character is a 1st world war soldier, I do a small search and find out a bit about what he would have looked like and his clothes. I don't use all the info, just bits to make my post sound fairly close but mainly I try and carry the story forward and put in enough for the following writer to hang there section on.

I take part, mainly for enjoyment and from the PM's I have received from many members, other people enjoy reading them. That adds to the fun, knowing someone else is enjoying what you produce and you try to produce the next bit better. Doesn't always work. But there is.

I have not desire to be elitist, I just want a framework to work in, I want to know that if the story is well established, who ever wants to join in is as committed as myself and the rest of the team working. This would add to the fun and the work.

Originally posted by Sammie
As far as writing with under 18 year olds goes....as you mentioned, Hol, we have a 'no under 13's without parental permission' thing going on. I think it best that everyone bear in mind that what they write must be suitable for anyone aged 13 up - and if you are not comfortable writing with people this age, then your content is most likely too adult to be posted anyway. .

Yes I am not comfortable with writing with people under 18, and not because I want to place content on the site that is not suitable for it.

The reason I would not feel comfortable writing or PM's a 14/15 year old about witchcraft, murder, demons, warfare etc. And as I read and ok stories for the forum I am well aware of the content that some of the younger members want to include in their stories. That they produce this material off their own bat is one thing. If through some misunderstood suggestion/post of mine causes them to produce it, then no way Sammie.

It is well known on this forum I have some knowledge of swords and weaponry. I have on more than once received PM's by younger members asking me all sorts of things.

One springs to mind. A young man wanted me to tell him how to and what would it be like to disembowel someone. My answer was it would hurt, the person would die and you would go to jail.

My reason for not wanting to write with under 18 years is that I am an adult with morals and a concern for younger people. If a younger member wanted to write with me then great, but they would be told at the outset what type of story I would not consider doing. Neither would I jump into a younger members story and "take over" or try to alter their own creative process to suit mine. I would respect them, as I would hope they would respect me.

[e-Morgana]

Well it would seem that things have gotten fairly heated overnight while I've been sleeping. Perhaps it would be best to all just step back, take a deep breath, and look at the facts. I think we are getting bogged down with formalities and details here, and losing sight of the big picture.

Fact 1 - Dag has decided in favour of those who believe there should be NO EXCLUSIVE TOPICS and NO NAMES in titles.
Fact 2 - This is how things worked for months, when the Hub originally started. And continued working like this, until we recently thought to put the author's names in the titles. Fact 3 - I think you'd have to agree that there were VERY few problems with this setup. Yes - there was the occasional awkward moment, but these were resolved fairly quickly, easily, and painlessly I thought.

Perhaps we should concentrate on the writing of stories and stop worrying about the "What if's". They weren't a major problem before. Why would they be, now? This subforum was created to give you the chance to do what you enjoy doing. I personally don't think it very likely that these issues of people ruining threads, OR people feeling excluded or intimidated are a serious threat.

Maybe I have greater faith than you in your fellow members, :D but I think they are respectful enough not to barge in and wreck anyone's ongoing project. And with this new format, I also think the very few accidental misunderstandings will be avoided as well.