[Evil Agent]

Ficus, you raise very good points about the female characters... I think you're right, his portrayal of them was pretty bad. I also thought that Aggie's death was unecessary.

[ChrisW]

This gives a very wrong impression of what Wicca & Pagan beliefs are.
Kaz it's fantasy. Are you saying that if Feist is going to use stuff from our world he has to present it accurately? What's wrong with putting his own spin on things to suit the story he is writing? It might annoy people who actually know about these things such as yourself but the majority of people are not going to care and thus it's a bit harsh to pick the book apart for presenting a different view.

[Erfael]

I did a paper on this one for a class a few years back, and can't remember all the details, but the main thing that struck me with it was that he uses all of these mythological sources and ALMOST gets them right, through either creative license or just messing them up. I'm not sure which the case is. It's been too long since I read it to say which, but perhaps some of you who have been through it recently would know better. Erf.


Are you saying that if Feist is going to use stuff from our world he has to present it accurately?

And I would say yes. If an author sets something up conceptually as in our world as it is, then to move outside of that is jarring and inconsistant. If it's set up as being different, no problems. It would be like Jordan suddenly altering the way magic works for the next wheel of time book without any explanations--it's just all of a sudden different and disruptive to the believability of the world.

Again, I haven't read Faerie Tale in a while, so I'm not taking a stance on Feist's use of things, just the general concept I hold. Erf.

[ChrisW]

I did a paper on this one for a class a few years back, and can't remember all the details, but the main thing that struck me with it was that he uses all of these mythological sources and ALMOST gets them right, through either creative license or just messing them up. I'm not sure which the case is. It's been too long since I read it to say which, but perhaps some of you who have been through it recently would know better. Erf.

Well the only way to find out if he messed them up or used creative license would be to ask him. He is the only one who can give that answer. All we can do is speculate on his intent.

[Erfael]

Well the only way to find out if he messed them up or used creative license would be to ask him. He is the only one who can give that answer. All we can do is speculate on his intent.

I don't know. It seems to me that if the changes are convincing and serve a purpose in terms of the plot or ideas he's trying to convey, then it's well worth the changes. If they're just wrong for no reason, that seems more like bad research, bad craft, or poor planning. There's probably evidence in one direction or the other within the work.

If I recall correctly(which I may very well not...don't know which memories are invented and which are accurate), it seems that most of the changes to lore served some purpose to his plot and concept of the faerie realm and the war that he was setting up in the book, thereby making them artistic license.


My paper was for a mythology class, so my main thrust then was pointing out what he got right and wrong from that aspect, not really exploring whether the right or wrong was intentional or related in a functional way to the story. Evil Agent asked me to dig it up to share with the discussion, and I've been through much of my old stuff with no sign of it, so it may be lost to the recycling somewhere.

Glad I can participate in even a small way in this one considering I haven't read the book in at least 5 years. I just can't wait for the summer to be over and I get some free time again. Erf.

[Evil Agent]

Summer over = free time?

Isn't it usually the other way around?

:confused:

[Erfael]

Usually, yes, but for me lately, not the case. Too much running around in the summer.

Almost didnt' recognize you with the new Gollum face, Evil. I like it.

Oh, and I guess just for good measure: Faerie Tale!!! There...we're on point again. Erf. :D

[Kaz]

Originally posted by Caldazar

Kaz it's fantasy. Are you saying that if Feist is going to use stuff from our world he has to present it accurately? What's wrong with putting his own spin on things to suit the story he is writing? It might annoy people who actually know about these things such as yourself but the majority of people are not going to care and thus it's a bit harsh to pick the book apart for presenting a different view.

Yeah, but Cal, IMO if he's going to make reference to them by name he should be able to back it up & give an at least semi-accurate portrayal. Also, if he has decided to use artistic licence & change a few aspects of it to suit his specific story then surely he should not fall into the age old trap of setting it up as a bad thing with Christianity (specifically Catholocism) as the opposite. Why use writer's freedom with one, only to throw it slap bang in the middle of an age old cliché regarding the other?
I just think it would have worked better if he had given the religion a new name & maybe even referred to it as a long-forgotten rite rather than polarising two religious movements as good / evil.

I guess I always get rather annoyed at religious mentionings in books (whether it be fantasy or not), such as the fact that Catholicism will save the world & all you have to do is say a few Hail Mary's or whatever & all will be well. BS! It's a well known fact that Catholics have in the past done the most outrageous things (in terms of human killings and slavery) in the name of God. What kind of god is he then that he would save the world from evil, only to hand it to those people who murder, rape & steal in his name? And ever notice that the ones ho save the world, the people or the damned cat is always the people who have never had a relationship with god or have turned their back on him. Now suddenly they call his name, say a blessing & POOF! all is well? Don't think so IMO that makes a mockery of God too.

But I guess you are right, it would only annoy those who know about some aspects of other religions. Oh & before you get the wrong idea, I do believe in God.

BTW - don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed the book, but that doesn't mean I have to like every bit of it. I liked the idea that Faeries could be bad, evil - totally opposite to what we have come to expect. I didn't like the way it was equated to a religious movement that is still in existence today & largely misunderstood as it is.

I also didn't appreciate the way Gabbie's near-rape was romanticised & made to look like an almost fantastic thing - but again, that's just my opinion.

I think there are certain things that, to me, should not be overly fantasised.

[Evil Agent]

Kaz, you're a smart cookie. ;)

As for the religious thing, I agree, but I almost thought of it in terms of a Vampire type story. In every vampire story, including Anne Rice's work, they bring in Christianity, and crucifixes, and saying the Lord's name to banish the vampires, etc... Isn't that just as bad? I thought of this as the same type of thing, only Feist was dealing with Faeries instead of Vampires.

BTW, Thanks Erf! :)

[Stor-All]

Well I just finished the book and overall really enjoyed it. I have never read Feist before, and I think this book was quite a change of pace for me. However, the whole sex thing started to really get to me. Reading about blatent sex acts has never really appealed to me. It seemed like every female character that was introduced in the story had to be good looking. There are deffinetly aspects to women other than their good looks.
As for the twins not forgetting, if I remember correctly, Sean only thought it was the Faerie Stone that helped him not forget. When I was reading the Epilogue, I was thinking that the reason niether forgot was because they were upstairs. Then it said that Sean thought it was because of the Faerie Stone and Patrick had found one after a long search by the stream. I think Feist is suggesting that maybe even these "all-powerful" Magi can make mistakes and forget about the kids, or maybe it's just that their power isn't all powerful and can't reach the upstairs of the house.


Another discussion point...although tell me if I just totally missed this part of the book:
Are the Magi and the Faeries one and the same? The only real evidence I can come up with for this is that they both have the ability to make people forget encounters with them, but that seems like a pretty particular ability.