[rune]

I feel regardless of if people felt the history of the mythogology was accurate or not, this is after all a story.

I have heard a few things about mythical facts but I tend to place that knowledge to one side when I read a fantasy book :)


rune

[Erfael]

Rune, story or not, it's the nature of our language that words, especially proper nouns, conjure complete conceptual packages. By using certain words, an author brings with those words all of the associations and facts that accompany those names. To use names from a mythology, especially in a context so close but not exactly the real meaning of them, it makes it difficult for people who know what those words and associations really mean to not become frustrated unless the author adequately backs up whatever changes s/he makes to the concepts.

I think that's the complaint that Kaz has here. And I agree that it can be a real problem and a sign that an author isn't doing a particularly good job in synthesizing real world concepts into his fantasy story.

[Kaz]

Kaz, you're a smart cookie.

Oh dunk me :rolleyes: ;)

As for the religious thing, I agree, but I almost thought of it in terms of a Vampire type story. In every vampire story, including Anne Rice's work, they bring in Christianity, and crucifixes, and saying the Lord's name to banish the vampires, etc... Isn't that just as bad? I thought of this as the same type of thing, only Feist was dealing with Faeries instead of Vampires.

I haven't read much of Anne Rice, so help me out here - does she rely on facts about a not very well known or understood religion to support & create fictional characters and then destort the truth of the religion to make the characters come across as more sinister thereby casting them opposite the accepted religious movement of the day and basically setting them up for an eventual fall because it is what has become expected to fit into the smallminded theories and beliefs of what is good / bad / evil / wrong / right and so forth?

What was the similarities that made you think of it as a type of vampire story? I do have some sort of idea, like the fact that The Fool stole children & enslaved them to him by giving them more pleasure than they can bear & life everlasting in a way (the old adage 'too much of a good thing....' has never seemed so appropriate) - just as a vampire would 'convert' people by sucking their blood and then keeping them as 'slaves'

Also perhaps the abundance of sex & combination thereof with violence.

Are the Magi and the Faeries one and the same? The only real evidence I can come up with for this is that they both have the ability to make people forget encounters with them, but that seems like a pretty particular ability.

Not as far as I could figure. The Magi basically took it upon themselves to protect humans from the forces of the Faeries. The had originally fought in the war for power & I think had quite a bit to do with the divide between the two courts of the Faeries (Seely and Unseely). They are also the keepers of the 'peace accord' (what did they call it again?) and they have become powerful enough to mimick the Faeries in their ability to cloud people's minds, but this is a skill that they have practiced for many years (notice how, when the German was speaking to the adults there was another group outside chanting). The Faeries do not require the chanting - for them the glamour comes naturally.

Perhaps someone else could help out here - maybe I'm way off track.

As for the twins not forgetting, if I remember correctly, Sean only thought it was the Faerie Stone that helped him not forget. When I was reading the Epilogue, I was thinking that the reason niether forgot was because they were upstairs. Then it said that Sean thought it was because of the Faerie Stone and Patrick had found one after a long search by the stream. I think Feist is suggesting that maybe even these "all-powerful" Magi can make mistakes and forget about the kids, or maybe it's just that their power isn't all powerful and can't reach the upstairs of the house.

Or perhaps it was because of the fact that they were children & wanted to believe it more?

I think that's the complaint that Kaz has here. And I agree that it can be a real problem and a sign that an author isn't doing a particularly good job in synthesizing real world concepts into his fantasy story.

100% correct Erf, thanks for clearing that up a bit :)

[Evil Agent]

By the "vampire story" comparison I didn't mean anything as complex as what you said. I just meant it reminded me of the kind of "Van Helsing" vampire exorcism, where they hold a crucifix and invoke the name of Jesus, and it has a weakening effect on the vampire. Or even in a Poltergeist movie or something.

SPOILERS FOR ANNE RICE
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About Anne Rice, the 5th vampire book dealing with Lestat ("Memnoch the Devil") Involved Lestat meeting God, Satan, Jesus, and tied them all into the tale. I'm not sure if it's the same as what you're talking about.

[Kaz]

Yeah, that is sort of what I meant - about invoking the name of God and so on.

I'd love to see a take on it where scientific method actually plays a role in slaying the demons and vampires and faeries and whatever else. Guess that's why I liked the Blade movies - just kicking vampire butt without the need of praying for them first.

[Lucky Joe]

I've just finished reading tonight and overall enjoyed the book though there were several things that annoyed me about it.

I didn't like the christian aspect to it, far too many stories seem to rely on religion to clear things up without offering any real explanation as to how that works. Like Kaz said, just pray and God'll fix it up!

A lot of the characters were flat and interchangable, I couldn't remember who was who between Gary and Mark until the last hundred pages or so.

Most of the book seemed to be building up to something (I know all books do this - but there is usually something going at the same time) and then in the end I thought Sean's journey into the Faeries world a bit of a let down. As always with Feist's books he seemed to be waiting for something to happen that never quite did.

Still I did enjoy it.

[Stor-All]

Originally posted by Lucky Joe
A lot of the characters were flat and interchangable, I couldn't remember who was who between Gary and Mark until the last hundred pages or so.
Deffinetly agreed with you there. I had a lot of trouble with Gary and Mark. But I didn't really have difficulty with the other characters.

[Jorgen]

Hi, folks!
Well, I’ve got mixed feelings about the book. It doesn’t live up to The Book of the Month standarts, IMHO. At first, I just thought that Feist might be encroaching on other authors’ territory (like King, for example). But I liked the characters, and the beginning WAS fascinating (though I couldn’t keep thinking I’ve read this already, sort of deja LU feeling). I loved the episode of Gabbie’s being seduced by the Fool (Meaning it was really scary, first thinking she had met somebody nice like Puck, but then realizing that something was wrong and not quite so innocent. Sexist it may be, but I somehow didn’t think about ideology much, at this point). But starting from that moment – or maybe Patrick’s kidnapping - things got steadily worse. It degenerated into a) X files (the part about the hospital); b) Dan Brown’s Da Vinci Code (the part about Marc’s investigation: AWFUL RUBBISH history-wise, like Rome, Ghengis-Khan and Tamerlan in one heap BEFORE (!) the third century etc. – The Roman empire was “done in” in 476, officially?); c) a true “faery tale” for kids (Sean in the faery-land). The end was a little flat, and I regretted deeply the fact that Jack didn’t turn out to be the rebellious Magi in league with the Fool… as some other contributor did, apparently.
I know you’ll probably tell me X-files were “disclosed” after the book was published (long ago, right? but after the Rise and Fall, it seems)…
Didn’t fall asleep reading, though
:)

[ChrisW]

It doesn’t live up to The Book of the Month standarts, IMHO They have standards? I just thought they were books people wanted to read and discuss?:confused: IMO FT was a good choice as people actually read it as opposed to last months book where mb 4 people did.

[Lucky Joe]

I thought there was more potential for Jack's character too, the way he introduced himself and turned out to be a fan of Phil's seemed like a perfect set up for something more.