[Mugwump]

Now I love Olaf Stapledon as much as the next SF nut, his philosophical approach coupled with a truly wondrous imagination is something remarkable - but even so I struggled with Last and First Men like a fly trying to extricate itself from a jar of thick molasses.

The book has dated horribly and endless referrals to species (x) reaching 'enlightenment' only for it to fall by the wayside a couple of pages later progressively numbed my brain to the point where I was desperately hoping the book would end 100 pages before it did.

Which is a pity really, as I found Stapledon's other famous creation Star Maker to be one of the most insightful pieces of fiction I've ever had the fortune to encounter. Certainly I was every bit entertained by the author's 'stab' at what lies not only in our future, but beyond the universe and the end of time also. True, Star Maker also features the same kind of esoteric philosophical ramblings contained within LAFM – but, in my opinion, not to the same degree; and certainly not at the expense of the underlying story.

Either way - it's not difficult to see the impact both books have had on modern SF trends (did Pierre Boule 'lift' his Planet of the Apes from LAFM? And did Brian Aldiss take a leaf out of SM when he created Hothouse?).

I’m interested to hear any feedback on this subject, as opinion does appear to be split on which is the superior piece of work.

[emohawk]

I actually found both of them books that really awed me, but were incredibly hard to actually get through - like reading a text book.

I have an old copy of Sirius that I picked up a little while ago that I'm yet you read. I don't suppose anyone has read that, and as it's an actual novel (which the other two technically aren't), can compare it's readbility with Last and First Men/Starmaker?

[Hungry Jo]

I loved LAst and First Men, but I havn't read Starmaker yet, it's on my 'too read list'.

The only real problem I had with LAFM was the first 'book' which was basically about the which Stapleton thought the 20th centuary was going to go. He got it very very wrong and the introduction to the edition I have (The SF Masterworks edition) actually reccomends you skip it.

Still, I thought it was interesting to see why Stapleton went wrong, and he often did so quite understandably, it was also interesting to see where he was right (The USSR defeated by America through economic means for example).

Anyway, I mus read Star Maker :)

[ArthurFrayn]

<I agree with you about Starmaker being the better book of the two. Last and First Men is very dated, and reeks of Social Darwinism. I also think you're told in the intro to the edition that you refer to skip 40 pages or so because there's a passage there about a ritual sacrifice dance that is ludicrously racist. I think they'd prefer you miss that. ;)

<Starmaker on the other hand is one of the most ambitious pieces of fiction I have read. It's one of my favorite science fiction books.

<Stabledon has had an influence.The writer I see his influence on immediately is Arthur C Clarke. The conclusion of Childhood's End with the human race becoming one giant unified mindforce is a reworking of the basic plot device for Star Maker,where beings from different races join together to form a collective mind which turns out to be the only way the design of supreme being,the Star Maker can be comprehended. Childhood's End also manages to capture a taste of the spiritual aspect of that book.
Robert Silverberg's Son of Man seems to tackle the Last and First Men concept on his own, more personal terms. In a landscape beyond time,all the ages of man are assembled. The book sort of reads like a Time Machine meets Last and First Men.
Dune might also be a book influenced by Stabledon-specifically the concept of the Dune Navigators.
You could argue the end of the Tralfamadorians in Slaughter House 5 echoes the end of the last age of man in Last and First Men.


<A word about Sirius.Sirus is a very interesting, poignant book about a dog who as as the product of eugenic experimentation has the IQ of a human. The story is told as a first person narrative by the dog. This is the first book I read by him; it's canvas is so small and focussed,you can imagine how blown away I was when I read his other books which are so extreme in the opposite direction.

<The one I haven't read yet is Odd John.I know it's about an abnormally bright child. Anyone read this one?