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KatG
August 13th, 2007, 09:41 PM
Aww, well, I'm sorry for him because it was a nice push. It seems like the SciFi Channel is a little leery about doing fantasy series. They did decent promotion for the show, but I was annoyed that they sort of normalized it, going the more traditional route on various fantasy creatures, instead of using more of what the books had, which was different. It was also annoying that Murphy, who is a blonde in the books, got made into a brunette. Little things like that were probably dismaying to fans of the series. But hopefully, it brought in some new fans, as some of our members seem to be saying.

ravenlynne
August 14th, 2007, 12:51 AM
Aww, well, I'm sorry for him because it was a nice push. It seems like the SciFi Channel is a little leery about doing fantasy series. They did decent promotion for the show, but I was annoyed that they sort of normalized it, going the more traditional route on various fantasy creatures, instead of using more of what the books had, which was different. It was also annoying that Murphy, who is a blonde in the books, got made into a brunette. Little things like that were probably dismaying to fans of the series. But hopefully, it brought in some new fans, as some of our members seem to be saying.

Lots of people on usenet have been persuaded to read the series after seeing the tv show. This is a great thing...

FicusFan
August 18th, 2007, 04:37 PM
I couldn't really watch the TV series. I thought they ruined Bob and I had no further interest. I know they have to change things, but not too much.

In contrast the Blood Ties series on Lifetime, based on the Tanya Huff Blood Ties series books, did a much better job. It is coming back in the US in October, and is supposed to be released in Canada and the UK either this summer or fall too.

I still have Proven Guilty to read. I get them in paper. I don't mind the continuing nature of the series, but the change in Harry, and the packing in of so much, and the lack of physical impact on Harry does lessen my enjoyment.

I haven't read the Alera series yet.

I agree that Simon Green's Nightside is flimsy and repetitive.

I love Charlie Huston's Joe Pitt series and think it is better than both Dresden (though less meaty) and Nightside.

KatG
August 19th, 2007, 03:59 PM
I understood that they had to change Bob to ghost person because their special effects budget was obviously small, and for a t.v. series, an actor doing it is probably going to be better than some red lights all the time. But they did change his personality a good bit though. :) Other changes were more annoying to me -- when they'd take Butcher's creative twists and change them to a more stock Hollywood plot, changing fundamental aspects of the story's universe/setting. But I do think they had Harry's character down pretty well, even if they changed his background.

I've seen adverts for Blood Ties but not having read Huff's books, I didn't know it was hers. Are they continuing the series or was it a one shot deal? Will it have to compete with the network's new vampire detective series this year?

FicusFan
August 19th, 2007, 09:38 PM
I realize that red lights would seem thin on TV, but it was the personality change that did me in. Just couldn't imagine the TV Bob as a light-hearted skirt chaser (as he was at times in the books).

The whole thing seemed too dark, and lacking in occasional silliness. Though maybe I missed it, cause I didn't watch it more than twice. It also seemed too complex. I read the books, but they changed things so since I missed most of the them, I couldn't just tune in an pick up what was going on.

In terms of Blood Ties I don't know about its continuing or not. It is from Canada and they made like 18-20 programs.

Lifetime put the first 7-9 on this past spring, calling it season 1. Didn't seem to advertise it much, I found it by accident, cause I don't watch Lifetime (sleazy and exploitative). It did well enough for them to schedule the rest of the season 1 programs in October, though they are calling it season 2.

I have no idea if they have been filming more or not. It is supposed to be on in the UK and Canada late summer or early fall too, and then there is a DVD that is supposed to come out once everyone is all in the same place.

They are pretty good, though a bit light and fluffy. They too have a low special effects budget. They try to make up for it with music and fancy camera work. They also added people not in the books, but they needed to because the continuing supporting cast in the books is thin. They did a fabulous job of casting Vicky and Mike.

They made a big change in the vampire character, Henry, who in the books is a short red-head (shudder - nothing against short or red heads, just not my idea of a vampire), in the series he is a bit taller, dark haired and has a wonderful sly, sparkly personality, and is also very yummy. So although it is a change it is also a fabulous casting.

Tanya Huff worked with the people who made the series, so it all seems to fit into the spirit of the books.

I think some of the Paranormal TV series this fall are on because of the success of the books in that vein, and perhaps because Blood Ties did well enough that it shows it can translate to TV. So yes they may compete with them, but if its on Mondays at 10:00 pm or Sundays at 10:00 pm like it was in the past (can't remember which) I am more concerned with the clash with Sunday Night or Monday Night Football.

If people have Comcast cable they put up the episodes ON-Demand under TV Programs, Lifetime (2nd page), and then Blood Ties. So you can still see them now, though each episode is only there for a while then they bring in a new one and remove the oldest one.

I think in October they are going to rerun the earlier ones so that people won't have to start in the middle, cause while each episode is about a supernatural crime/mystery and wraps up, there is an on going story arc with the relationship of the 3 main characters that works best when seen in order.

KatG
August 20th, 2007, 12:50 PM
They actually had quite a bit of silliness and Bob was sometimes lascivious, asking if he could watch Harry in the sack, etc., but it was a bit of a personality change, yes.

I think SciFi Channel should have given it another season to work the kinks out. Instead, they seem to be putting a lot of attention into this Flash Gordon remake, which did well out the gate, but seems to be panned by fanboys everywhere.

The flood of new fantasy and sf series on U.S. t.v. this year I think is largely due to the success of "Heroes." The same sort of thing happened after "Lost" hit, but most of those shows sank. Be interesting to see what happens.

Can those of you who don't like as much the later books in the Dresden series -- which I have not yet read -- give a little more info on what you disliked. Did they seem repeptitious? Did the overall series story arc seem too slow? Were the mysteries the books were about not as interesting?

Wulfa_Jones
August 20th, 2007, 01:56 PM
Can those of you who don't like as much the later books in the Dresden series -- which I have not yet read -- give a little more info on what you disliked. Did they seem repeptitious? Did the overall series story arc seem too slow? Were the mysteries the books were about not as interesting?

I'm still enjoying the later Dresden books, but I can see why people might not be enjoying them as much. I've yet to read Proven Guilty (seems hard to come by in the UK), so can't state if it's the case with that title, but with the last few the plot has changed.

The books started off a bit like a film noir crime story - with Harry being hired to investigate something and then Murphy bringing Harry in on another case - with the two cases ending up being connected. Now things are getting a bit bigger - gone has the investigation part of the plot, the detecting and now it's all about the council, the war etc.

I think it was the whole wizard detective thing that appealed to people, and it's now more of a grander scale.

Also, another complaint is the pure amount of punishment, phsyical activity and the number of events that take place, within normally a few days, in the average Dresden book and the fact that Dresden can still cope/survive all this.

None of this really bothers me that much... I did like the film noir plotting of the first books, but I do like how the story arc is starting to appear, how the world is expanding and how the characters are developing.

Hellsfire
August 20th, 2007, 02:16 PM
The flood of new fantasy and sf series on U.S. t.v. this year I think is largely due to the success of "Heroes." The same sort of thing happened after "Lost" hit, but most of those shows sank. Be interesting to see what happens.

Can those of you who don't like as much the later books in the Dresden series -- which I have not yet read -- give a little more info on what you disliked. Did they seem repeptitious? Did the overall series story arc seem too slow? Were the mysteries the books were about not as interesting?

Personally, I prefer 4400 over Heroes. At times, it feels I'm watching a copy of 4400, although Heroes is far better stylizied.

I already said that one of the problems for me in the Dresden series is that there are too many major plot points that get added and never solved. They build up seems to be a snail's pace, which is strange since they're pretty major yet a lot of it happens off screen. Also, there are too many characters and Harry's getting too much power. Harry does seem a bit supermanish because he does survive doing too much in a few amount of days and it's not like he's using his powers to compensate for that. Of course, that could be that he's a wizard and above humans and Butcher doesn't need to keep repeating it.

FicusFan
August 20th, 2007, 08:55 PM
My problems, and it may be because I read 7 books back to back - if you had a year between each they may have seemed fine :

1. are about the sheer amount of high energy, life or death activity taking place in the space of one book. The normal every day life that Harry had at the start of the series has pretty much disappeared.

It was the mundane stuff that allowed character development, and it was where Harry has the most problems, and seemed the most vulnerable and often foolish. In short, it gave him a strong dose of humanity.

The later books have a 'If this is Tuesday, it must be Belgium' sense of trying to do too much in too short a time, like a whirlwind package tour that tries to cram in the wonders of all Europe in 5-7 days.

There used to be a homey human type mystery, then something that was hinky and with the police, and they ended up being the same or related. Then they started to add something that threatened the life of Harry, a relative, or someone he loved. Then there was the addition of something that threatened to destroy the human world, and then something that endangered the supernatural world. And if you read 2-3 books like that you get burnt out because its too intense to maintain that high level, and then it just looks formulaic.

2. I think Harry has gotten obnoxious and snarky. He is kicking people when they are down, just because they are bad guys and he can. It is a nasty habit that reflects badly on Harry. He has the power now to get away with it, and its like his real personality is coming out.

3. He has become too powerful and strong. He is like a superhero character, rather than a real person, because he is not really damaged, or slowed down by anything.

4. I miss the cat character, and the use of Bob. It seems to be just Harry and the dog.


They aren't horrible, but they aren't as enjoyable as they were.

KatG
August 21st, 2007, 11:42 AM
Okay, so pacing and character development. However, some of the changes do sound interesting to me -- Harry getting stronger -- because that is a central theme of the story -- that wizards can become very powerful and the dangers if they start losing their humanity, the danger of Harry turning to the black.

Of course, that concept of power surge is a bit similar to Laurell Hamilton's Anita Blake, if the books go in that direction, but I would be interested to see what Butcher is doing with it. I am taking the books very slowly. I've been trying out different supernatural fantasy writers when I can, like Charlaine Harris and Kelley Armstrong, and Butcher's I've liked best so far. But I do really like the noir humor in that series, so the shift to war novels may not be to my taste. Then again, taking a hard-boiled mystery arc and shifting it into an epic war arc in the contemporary setting is kind of an interesting idea, so it makes me more curious than discouraged. I guess I'll have to read them and find out. :)