[JohnH]

***************************

[Dominus]

Originally posted by JohnH
But what worries me, is that fantasy is not meant to be mainstream. It should be accessible to mainstream, yes. It should not be marginalized due to general misconceptions concerning quality and format. But it worries me that fantasy is getting the spin-pitch. Not surprising. Just worrisome. See I am convinced that writing fantasy is hard work. It requires world-building and cultural layering that many other forms of fiction do not have to rely on. Contemporary fiction might require the author to firmly establish a familiarity with the setting used, but even a good tale can be based in San Francisco even if the author has never been there but requires visual and written aids. Truly good fantasy, regardless of what you think that is, can be determined by the reader's submersion into the writer's imagination and creation. If you bought the package, you will love the trip. Pure and simple.

I am a bit terroritorial with a genre that still gets a huge amount of scorn by those who don't have a clue. But what happens when fantasy becomes the lastest schtick is that it become mediocre. Worse it is this mediocrity that becomes the mainstream recognition. Then when sales plumment, the whole genre takes the hit.First of all, superb topic John.

You are right in saying that writing good fantasy is a lot more work than writing most anything else. Sure, writers have to research and such, but fantasy writers have to imagine everything they write, creating and molding their world as they go. World building and all that it involves (geography, cultures, languages, races, mythology, technology, etc.) is the most unique and special part of fantasy and sci-fi. It is the most important aspect of fantasy in my opinion, because however good the plot and characters are, if I can't picture the world, if I can't believe that it could actually exist with all it's complexities, I usually put the book down, or finish it and never look back.

In this I totally agree, if fantasy is treated in the same respect as, say, suspense thrillers (Chrichton, Grisham etc.), the overall quality of the genre will definitely decrease. Many people just don't have to will and imagination to create an entire world or universe to the degree that many fantasy readers want it. Of course, if that happened, the number of fantasy 'fans' would grow in number so people would still read it.

You can definitely see this 'trend' when you look at the promotions of LotR on MTV and such. You see young, hip, and clueless people talking about the movie like it is just a movie, not a set of incredible books, that they've no doubt had in the 'dork' box in their mind, that essentially jumpstarted the genre.

But in our world today, everyone in the media industry wants money, and if they see a solid, loyal market such as the fantasy and sci-fi genre attract, they are going to try and make money off of it, guarenteed. But all the fantasy readers have to do is not buy crap and stick with the authors that actually deserve to write fantasy, and they'll hopefully realize that most fantasy readers don't just enjoy fantasy, they respect it.

[ChrisW]

Tor is also trying for romance:

Tor Books is actively seeking well-written novel-length stories, focusing on both plot and character development. All submissions, no matter which of the following subcategories they fall into, must include paranormal elements.
These are the subcategories we are looking for under the general heading of "paranormal romance":


(a) plausible science fiction
(b) fantasy
(c) horror / otherworldly beings (i.e., vampires, goblins, faeries, ghosts, banshees, skinwalkers, zombies, golem, etc.)
(d) near-future / speculative fiction
(e) non-standard time travel
(f) alternate history / alternate timelines

[Nevyn]

As is with everything in a capitalistic approach , quality suffers the most !

[Khallandra]

Writing fanatasy is a labour of love - you really need to know about the genre and how it works and more importantly what has already been written. Just throwing a bunch of authors in and saying "Write fanatsy" simply wont cut it. Some will float but most will sink - though some mish mashes might work most wont

(Pirates in Space - that's funny though I'd watch it if it was Corellians :p)

[milamber_reborn]

Didn't Jordan write historical romance once?

[ChrisW]

Yeah, the Fallon trilogy.

[KatG]

I have to strongly disagree. First of all fantasy fiction used to be "mainstream." Writers wrote fantasy fiction which was regarded as mainstream literature. When Tolkein first penned LOTR, it was regarded as a literary work and respected in the mainstream, though more deeply appreciated perhaps by its cult following. Contemporary authors continue to use fantasy in many novels, from literary surrealist family sagas to supernatural thrillers.

"Fantasy" as a genre was created by science fiction publishers who were willing to put out LOTR in paperback and try out other fantasy works. Because sf was regarded as junk fiction with an audience made up mainly of young males, the new fantasy genre was regarded as such as well. Fantasy was everywhere, much of it in classic literature. But the "fantasy genre" was considered the trash heap, aping real writers, just as romance (which is not considered mainstream fiction,) is considered trash fiction as well.

Nowadays, the fantasy genre has a wide and established share of the market and has garnered mainstream best-sellers, more review coverage and in general, more respect. The recent success of movie series so closely identified with their original book origins -- LOTR and Harry Potter -- has increased that sense of respect. Which means that fantasy publishers can attract more readers, and so more writers, more quality writers, can pay their writers better and those fantasy writers will have a better shot at things like movie deals. (By and large, movies and t.v. have ignored fantasy fiction, preferring to make up their own stuff.) The more mainstream acceptance fantasy fiction has, the more power it has.

Romance is suffering because it no longer has a loyal fan base that will buy titles every month. There are a lot of women's novels in the mainstream as well, that women readers can buy just as easily as stock romance titles. Consequently, they've been trying new strategies, letting romance novelists get into other areas, such as suspense, getting rid of the Fabio covers in preference for more straight mainstream cover treatments, putting more support behind large historical sagas than short Regency or contemporary romances, and so on. And since romance may eventually go the way of the western genre, romance publishers like Harlequin are trying to branch out into other genres, hence starting their own fantasy imprint. Which, given how limited the market is for fantasy writers to get their stuff published, is probably a good thing.

But can the fantasy genre go the way the romance genre is going? Or will it have the decline that genre mystery fiction has experienced, with publishers dumping mid-listers? It's possible, but market factors are changing and fantasy is one of the genres poised to take good advantage of those changes. One thing I think is for certain, if fantasy tries to stay exactly as it is, with a marginalized niche audience and no attempts to branch out, it will get into a lot of trouble. Health requires growth and the modern fantasy genre won't grow if it stays only in its own little pot. It will just get root-bound and possibly die.

[JohnH]

*******************************

[Bracken]

I've actually sent a submission to Luna (no reply as yet). From what I understand from reading their boards, they're looking for fantasy with some romance. This isn't fantasy romance with a capital R, just normal fantasy, that happens to have romance in it - which is hardly unusual - most fantasy I read has a relationship in it.

They will just be able to guarantee their readers that all of their books will definitely have an element of romance in it - this doesn't mean that all the books will be romance heavy, or that they'll be rubbish. I think it's great that they've started a new fantasy line as it hopefully points to more fantasy readers and more fantasy books in the shops. Also, for those of us who try to write, it's one of the few publishers that accepts unsolicited submissions.