[Pangloss]

New member here so I hope you won't beat me up too much! :)

I'm reading Dan Simmons' Ilium, and I noticed something interesting. He sites the Richard Lattimore translation of the Iliad in the introduction, and that happens to be one of my personal favorites, so I was suprised when I saw that he spelled Agamemnon's familial name "Atrides" instead of "Atreides", as Lattimore does.

I couldn't help but wonder if he might have been trying to avoid confusion for Frank Herbert fans. I don't think it's real well known that Herbert picked that name for a reason. Perhaps he might have been concerned that Dune fans might have been confused and wondered what he was talking about, and he didn't feel like a long-winded explanation of the curse of Atreus at that point in the story.

What do you guys think?

As for the book itself, I haven't gotten very far into it yet, but I think it's wonderful so far. I'm a long-time Iliad fan and those scenes are a blast to read, even adding to my understanding of the Iliad already, and the rest of the story is quite intriguing!

[Hobbit]

Welcome, Pangloss!

Reading this one at the moment. Really enjoying it, though I am still playing 'hunt the reference' when I should be just enjoying the book!

It's been a long while since I read The Iliad myself, though I have a reasonable idea of how it relates, so it's interesting to read what an enthusiast thinks of this reinterpretation.

Simmons is fantastic. :)

I would have thought personally that the name change would've been to avoid the idea that there was a Dune connection to Simmons's story, for those familiar with Herbert's work and not Littimores - though of course I am guessing! It could be argued that sf fans might accuse Simmons of using Herbert's characters, though Simmons is far too good for that, IMO.

It's a good point though - have you tried asking the author at his web site?

Hobbit

[Duraccione]

Originally posted by Pangloss
I'm reading Dan Simmons' Ilium, and I noticed something interesting. He sites the Richard Lattimore translation of the Iliad in the introduction, and that happens to be one of my personal favorites, so I was suprised when I saw that he spelled Agamemnon's familial name "Atrides" instead of "Atreides", as Lattimore does.
I surely can't english so good to make some ethimological explanation, but the classical world and today's words ethimology are a subject I love. So here's my guess.
The greeks said something like "Atreides", but the latins said "Atrides": so I think there's no substantial difference between both english transcriptions, for it is simply due to the ethimology the author wanted to go back to.
I think that in this case - being the book about Ilium - it had to be "Atreides", but Simmons felt forced to deviate to "Atrides" due - as you noticed - to Herbert's "Atreides", maybe just for copyright reasons.

[Pangloss]

Thanks for the replies. :)

You could be right, Duraccione. He uses "Ajax", for example, and one of the more famous things about Lattimore is that he uses "Aiax" instead, as well as other more "Greek" forms of the names.

Hobbit, I didn't know he had a web site. Do you happen to have the URL?

[Duraccione]

You're welcome, Pangloss! ;)

[Hobbit]

There are fan websites around too, Pangloss, but his official website is here. (http://www.dansimmons.com/) It has a scary Shrike picture on the front!

(Try here (http://www.dansimmons.com/ds/voices.html) for the forum...)

Hobbit

[Evil Agent]

Ive read the Hyperion and Endymion series which I LOVED, and Ive seen Illium... Is it worth reading? I was intrigued for sure, and am even moreso now... I knew about the origin of the Atreides name in Dune, but I didnt know it was actually spelled exactly the same in translations of the Iliad!

[Hobbit]

So far, so good, Evil. :)

It does have a lot of literary references which you may, or may not get. Don't think I've got them all!

However, it is clear that it is a major work.

Try Clute's review here (http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue321/excess.html). Sometimes I think Clute's got it, or perhaps I've got it, and sometimes I wonder if he's read the same book as me...:p but he seems to think it's a limited success...which to most people is probably a success!

The SF Site review (http://www.sfsite.com/09b/il160.htm) is much clearer, and there's a very interesting interview with Simmons there too (here (http://www.sfsite.com/09b/il160.htm)) Hows this for an interesting quote? :

To be honest, I suspect that we're in the true Golden Age of SF. The writing has never been of a higher standard; the variety of quality speculative fiction -- sociological, personal, literary, "hard" SF, utopian, dystopian, historical, psychological -- has never been greater; the readers have never been as well educated.

Or, when asked the question "How do written science fiction and filmed science fiction differ?" his answer starts...

Without specifying which is which, I can say that one of these two things is written by tempered, well-educated adults and -- at its best -- is among the best-written and most provocative literature America produces; the other is usually "written and directed" by arrogant 26-year-olds who've read almost nothing in their short, video-sheltered lives, and who think they "know sci-fi" because they grew up watching Battlestar Galactica and Star Wars on video when they weren't reading comic books.

Wow....

Hobbit

[NeonKnight]

Just finished Ilium the other night and I'll be making some comments in the other thread, but I did want to post this tidbit here.

On page 557 Simmons uses the Herbert spelling:

The two sons of Atreides are still brusied from their single combat with Achilles,...

I did not notice any other deviations, so perhaps this page was just a typo.

[Hobbit]

I haven't got that far yet, Neon! :)

Interesting though - agree with you, as a typo. Might all be resolved in the next novel?

Hobbit