[Nimea]

I am still reading 'The Curse of Chalion' and thinking about its main character I started chewing on these questions again. So here I go:

Often I read that people want 'grey' characters. That good and evil do not exist or at least not purely. That humans are not one or the other - or at least that the interesting main characters are not 'good'.

So what exactly is 'grey'? What characters are grey and why?

Maybe more importantly: what makes good bad and evil good? ;)
Some people say: good heroes are boring, the villain is much more interesting.
Why? What is a boring good hero and is there one that is not boring?
What do you personally enjoy and why?

I do not seek an answer for those question, because I have my own opinion already. ;) I just want to see what you think on this.

[ChrisW]

Well imo most evil type characters are "Grey" characters if you get to see their PoV and reasoning.

I think the whole grey character thingy is overrated:) . Characters are interesting if they are written well, it has nothing to do with their alignment imo.

I can't believe I spelt grey with an a!

[Lord Wently]

I agree. I've read many black, white, and grey characters and some were good; some not quite so good. I think quality writing is what makes a character interesting, not his alignment.

[Bear]

The problem with black and white characters is that they usually aren't very believable, but more in their thinking than their actions. And when characters frequently do what's "right" instead of what's "best," some problems can arise. And in this, it usually comes down to consequences.

When I read about characters who always make the right decision, yet everything works out fine--even though logically there would be consequences for their decisions--it rubs me wrong. Sort of a Dues Ex Machina sydrome that some authors have. But if a character makes a decision that he believes is "right," even though it isn't the "best" solution, and he recieves proper consequences for his actions (and the conseuqences don't have to be bad, necessarily), then it won't bother me.

As for villians, I can't picture many people waking up one day and deciding to do a bunch of evil. If it's another being, it's easier to swallow. But if it's a human or something with human-like emotions, I need to understand where they're coming from. People can be ruthless, people can be mean, people can be twisted--but they usually have a reason. They wouldn't do it if it didn't benifit them in some way (be it emotional or material). Basically, the villians have to make sense, and they usually have to have a greyness to them--some admirable qualities, even--for me to buy them.

But all this comes in to the context of the story, too. I don't expect greyness from a fairytale.

[FicusFan]

I like grey or gray characters, because they are more interesting, and more believable. Very rarely is a real human all one thing.

When I think of good characters who are all white - I think of the cartoon character Dudley Doo-Right (he was a dippy Mounty in a cartoon that was part of Rocky & Bullwinkle). I just see that perfect hair and that chin that was the size of Mount Everest as the epitome of the 'hero'. An metaphorically all white person, is someone who knows everything, and has no temptations, someone who never slips, and when they share their thoughts and feelings it comes out preachy or melo-dramatic.

A metaphorically all black person is some lunatic who is laughing away at the organ while making hand washing motions. They have no reality in the human world, and while they may be scary or awful, they are not interesting, because they feel nothing. You don't get to see the torture they go through in trying to deal with their lives, and how they work real hard at rationalizing the harm they do.

There are occasionally really, really good people, and really really evil people -- and a good novelist can portray them well in a story - but I think they need to be a rare addition to the cast, unless the story is set in heaven or hell.

[Leiali]

I think that a good writer aknowledges the fact that the human condition is grey all the way through.

A really good writer can perhaps make us believe that a character is all white or black with the potential for grey, by highlighting decisions made and the motivation behind them. Motivation imo being the key behind what is being a good person and what is not.

I can't think of an example, but I am sure there have been decisions made in fiction by Emperor kings/Galactic leaders that seemed the right thing to do for the right reasons and turned out horribly wrong. And then you have characters you are meant to dislike who end up doing something requiring self sacrifice...............

Right, I am rambling. Imo, a hero is someone who balances decisions between what is 'white' and what is 'grey'. If you see what I mean

;)

[ubersoft]

Well I guess Tolkein was a lousy writer then. :P

Right now "grey" characters are en vogue -- that doesn't mean they're done poorly, mind you, or that stories with them suck, but it *does* mean they're pretty safe. If you try to create characters who are "truly good" or "truly evil" people will be more likely to laugh it off on general principle. (It doesn't help that there are poor writers who have shallow characters who happen to be "good" and "evil".)

Sooner or later the pendulum will shift, and the preference will be for more black-and-white ethics, and then it will be writing the grey characters that are a risk.

[bigbry]

People like the grey/gray characters because we live in a grey world. There is good and there is evil on our world and I don't think anyone would consider themselves as 'evil', yet people make decisions everyday that a ' truly good' person would never consider. Not to be a 'morality post' but think about yourself in situations like, a cashier undercharges you, you find money in the street, a homeless looking for handouts, a person cuts you off in traffic, someonelse is blamed for your mistake......now the GOOD person would react the correct/moral way on every issue yet most of us would take a pass on a few, flip the bird in traffic, maybe ignore the handout man or keep the fiver you find.

Most good people are grey people, good at heart but not perfect, or misunderstood in thier actions (GRR Martin is excellent at this).

Tolkien created his main character to reflect man's inherent 'goodness' yet need to do what needs to be done, hell he even named him Gandalf the GREY. He helps save Middle Earth yet knowningly sends to small hobbits to thier doom......

They grey character makes for a more interesting story whether it be the hero or villian. I enjoy the fact that the grey chacters make the story twist and turn more so than a black/white character...the Evil Emperor who spares an enemy or the hero who kills to ensure success.....(I know pretty cliche' but I am not a writer)....but the best part of the grey character is when his/her 'greyness' is hidden by Black or White.........

[Bear]

Well I guess Tolkein was a lousy writer then. :P

I've never been a huge fan of Tolkien's, and this is part of the reason. Archetypes have never appealed to me when the story is supposed to be taken very seriously (though, in a fairy tale or a young adult style of writing, it doesn't bother me). For all the time he spent on his world, I would have liked it better if he'd spent more time giving the characters more depth. I'm not trying to turn this into a Tolkien discussion--I'm more or less stating that black and white characters have never really done it for me in the "adult" fantasy realm. Or very rarely, at least.

[Bear]

)....but the best part of the grey character is when his/her 'greyness' is hidden by Black or White.........

I like this statement. Sometimes I enjoy it when a characters "greyness" is very apparent, but there's some truth in what you say, too.