View Full Version : LOTR: Return of the King discussion (spoiler thread))
December 5th, 2003, 08:25 PM
Feel free to discuss what you thought of the new LOTR movie below. This is the SPOILER thread, so if you don't want the film spoilt for you, look away now ;), and head to the non-spoiler (http://www.sffworld.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7085) thread.
As for the rest of you, post away...
December 6th, 2003, 06:22 AM
Is it true that they've omitted the Scouring of the Shire and the Farewell at Grey Haven?
Even from the director's cut DVD?
That would be truly blasphemous.
They strayed far enough from the books in Two Towers, when Faramir suddenly has a serious weed up his arse and decides to take Frodo to Osgiliath, boy was that scene ever ridiculous. The nazgul comes within inches of recapturing the ring, only thwarted by a quick intervention by Sam, and then it just gives up after one try!!!!
Plus, what the HELL were Haldir and the rest of the elves doing in Helms Deep???
And why, oh WHY, dear Peter Jackson, in the name of all that is good and holy, WHY did Aragorn fall into a river?
The worst part of all these changes is, I fail to see what purpose they serve. Even though I hated it when he left out Tom Bombadil and the Barrow Downs, I could understand it as a way to shorten the movie to appease the braindead moviegoers who can't possibly control their blather for any longer than two hours at max.
But these changes in TT, they're so incredibly pointless! It's like Jackson decided to go on the power trip of the century or something.
And Liv Tyler has actually made me hate Arwen. I'm constantly hoping she'll trip over the hem of one of her dresses and impale herself on something, so Viggo can get it on with the much more charming and talented Eowyn.
I have some major issues with the casting. Liv Tyler is heresy. Elrond is Agent Smith. Sean Astin looks too greasy and sweaty to be Sam. Elijah Wood is okay, though not the greatest actor in film history.
And yeah, the flaming vagina that they cast for Sauron is also a bit weird :p.
Well, guess that was mostly about TT, huh?
I just hope Jackson hasn't decided that Hutula should join Frodo and Sam in their quest, or that Gandalf suddenly turns evil and starts smiting his former allies, or that Merry and Pippin die while finding the entwives. I wouldn't put it past him.
December 8th, 2003, 03:58 AM
ah! yes! most of that i don't agree with, but at least someone see's that Elrond is COMPLETELY wrong!!!
December 8th, 2003, 04:33 PM
Whoa, whoa, settle down Loras! This is a ROTK thread, not a Un-vented TTT issues thread! :)
But here are my answers to almost all your points.
1. Watch the Extended TTT DVD, and the special feature entitled "From Book to Script, adapting the story" which gives an in-depth explanation for all the major changes. You might still disagree with them, but at least you will understand the reasoning behind the changes you mentioned (i.e. Faramir and more)
2. Some of the Extended footage makes some of the changes make more sense, again concerning Faramir.
3. The Nazgul almost getting the ring in Osgiliath... one of the most debated "mistakes" in the trilogy. The thing is, it's NOT a mistake! The Nazgul are BLIND! That's why in the books/films of FOTR and ROTK, the Nazgul were pretty much just as close, and they still couldn't "see" the ring... but this is still open for debate. I just think people have exaggerated the "mistake".
4. Aragorn's "fall" of the cliff was, as explained in the Extended DVD, a device to set up the "psychic connection" between Aragorn and Arwen. Yes, his fall seems pointless, but it was either that or have Arwen at HELM'S DEEP!!! (And yes, in the Extended DVD, there is some behind-the-scenes- footage of Arwen actually rehearsing at Helm's Deep), so I think that Aragorn's falling off the cliff is better than what could have been.
5. The Eye of Sauron rules!!!
6. Yes, the Scouring of the Shire is gone, not even in the Extended version. However, the farwell at the Grey Havens is IN the movie, even the theatrical edition. It's Jackson's favorite scene in the book and the film.
7. Yeah I know, Haldir wasn't supposed to be at Helm's Deep... but what's the big deal? How does it really tarnish the story in any way? Plus, as Jackson says, there WAS supposed to be some fighting going on at Lothlorien and Rivendell, which they couldn't fit into the film, so why not have some elves join the fight somewhere else?
8. As for the casting issues, Sam is greasy? Shouldn't a fat Hobbit on his way to Mordor look sweaty/greasy? And yes, Elrond is Agent Smith, but that's the case with almost EVERY single Hollywood movie starring any famous actor. For example, can you ever look at Brad Pitt and NOT be aware that you're looking at Brad Pitt, regardless of his role? or Ben Affleck, or any other "star"... actors are overused, that's all. :)
December 8th, 2003, 06:21 PM
I think the elves comming to helms deep was an amazing idea, in the book the elves did didaly-squat, but now they show that they still care for middle earth.
December 12th, 2003, 01:09 PM
You know, one thing I hope to see, allthough I seriously doubt they'll show anything, is maybe some mentioning of the dark god Morgoth, or maybe even a flashback of when Sauron was serving under him before he became the Dark Lord. Probably wishful thinking, though. :(
Many of the things I'm definitely looking forward to seeing on the big screen is Shelob, the Demon Watchers at the Black Gate (or whatever their called) Sam rescuing Frodo from Cirith Ungol, Eowyn battling the Witch King, the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, the Mouth of Sauron, the Dead Men of Dunharrow, and when Gollum and the Ring fall into Mount Orodruin.
December 12th, 2003, 03:52 PM
Hey Z, how do you know about Morgoth? I thought you hadn't read the Silmarillion? Anyway, just so you know, there IS a mention of him in the Extended version of the first film. It's the scene where they first meet Galadriel, and she realizes that Gandalf is dead. In the Extended version, they added a line where Legolas says "He was taken by both shadow and flame. A Balrog of Morgoth, for we went needlessly into the net of Moria!". I shivered when I heard that. Even mentioning Morgoth's name (or other such things as the Numenoreans) makes the world feel so much more real, so much more like Middle Earth.
In the second film, during the flashback of the Balrog's death, Gandalf also makes a mention: "From the lowest dungeon to the highest peak, I fought him, the Balrog of Morgoth."
As for the third film, I have one piece of bad news for you. The Mouth of Sauron scene has apparently been cut, and we can only assume that it will appear in the Extended ROTK DVD... it sucks, I was really looking forward to that character as well.
December 12th, 2003, 09:12 PM
Evil Agent. Gods, no!! Say it ain't so!! They cut the Mouth of Sauron scene from ROTK?!! They cut out the infamous and darkly glorius dark Lieutenant of Bara-Dur?!!! I can't tell you how dissapointed and angry this makes me! I was really looking forward to seeing him in the movies! I thought the Mouth of Sauron was an absolutely awesome character in the ROTK novel, allthough his part in it only lasted a few paragraphs, if I remember right. But, man, when I first read about him in ROTK, cold shivers went up and down my spine, he was one heckuva creepy and foreboding character, and it absolutely bursts my bubble that they won't show him in the movie! Utter blasphemy, I tell you! :mad:
As for me finding out about Morgoth, how I found out about him is actually kind of an odd circumstance. While I was reading the LOTR Trilogy four years ago, I was looking through various LOTR-inspired art by some of the most famous fantasy artists such as John Howe and Ted Nasmith, when I came across a really awesome-looking picture drawn by Ted Nasmith. This is the picture I saw:
The picture was entitled "Morgoth vs. the High King of the Noldor". Needless to say, I was really interested in this picture with it being so awesome, and I went to theonering.net message board, which I was a member of at the time (I left because most of the members turned out to be utter narrow-minded snobs who thought Tolkien was the be all and end all to fantasy and anything else was blasphemy. Heh, freaks! :rolleyes: ) and asked them to tell me, without spoilers who Morgoth and Fingolfin were. They told me all they could about Morgoth without spoiling it for me and I was completely amazed by this character, Morgoth is one of the many main reasons I want to read the Silmarillion!
By the way, I do remember Gandalf saying that he fought the "Balrog of Morgoth" in TTT, but I wasn't sure up till now when you told me what he said, if he said Morgoth or Moria because the loud sound effects in the flashback scene of him battling the Balrog kind of muffled that part of his speech. But, among many of the characters from the LOTR saga I would like to see on the big screen, Morgoth is definitely near the top of the list, if not at the very top! :)
December 15th, 2003, 01:00 PM
Yeah, he's pretty bad-ass. He's name is actually Melkor, but the elves re-named him Morgoth which means something like Dark Enemy or something. That painting is pretty cool, and the scene it illustrates is a good one too!
Alas, I too am sad that the Mouth of Sauron has been cut! I even remember seeing a picture of the actor they cast to play him. :(
December 16th, 2003, 02:14 PM
Bythe way, while we're talking about the LOTR movies, does it bug anyone that the Uruk Hai orcs are too human-looking? In my opinion, they are, and it bugs me a bit. You see, I've always imagined the goblins/orcs in The LOTR novels to look like the orcs/goblins the fellowship encountered in the Mines of Moria in the FOTR movie, you know, long, wickedly-pointed ears, cat-like/reptile-like eyes, razor-sharp teeth, a bat-like or pig-like face, long black hair, and a long, thin, spindly body. And I imagined the Uruk Hai to look basically similar to this, only more buff and not spindly.
But in the movies, in my opinion, the Uruk Hai look too human-like and not very goblin/orc like. They basically look like buff Drow (dark elves) with only a hint of goblin features, which is still awesome and all, but not quite what I was expecting. Was anyone else bothered by this, or am I just crazy?
Or am I perhaps wrong? I have to admit, it has been quite a long while since I've read the LOTR Trilogy and I'm wondering if perhaps the way the Uruk Hai orcs look in the movies is the way Tolkien described them in the books?
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