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December 25th, 2003, 05:30 PM
I hate making a new topic, but I didn't really think there was an existing thread to put it, so I just made it a general topic where you could opine on whatever you want about the game industry or philosophy or something....anyway.....

I was just wondering, what does everyone here think of the new cel-shaded games, such as Zelda: The Windwalker, and XIII? Personally, I think it's a really good concept for kids games, gives it a very nice, cartoony feel, and maybe on some games where it just fits the style, but otherwise, I think it's just a way for companies to cut back on costs (cel shaded animation is a ton easier than rendering, say, anything remotely realistic) and basically short the consumer. I don't know, I played a demo of Zelda, and have watched my brother play XIII, and while it's OK for a little while, after a bit, I just want to see some nice Halo explosions with dirt crashing around and shells rolling down the hill.....but that's me, what about you?

December 25th, 2003, 07:23 PM
Cel-shading is overused, I agree. But when Jet Set Radio first came out, it was amazing. That game oozed style, and the visuals were a big part of it. So I have nothing against the technique, but unfortunately, all the copycats have given it a bad name.

That being said, I loved Wind Waker and thought the visuals were friggin' amazing. A lot of pople hated it, but in truth, did we really need a mere upgrade of Ocarina? I'm glad they went a new route and the game was fantastic (even if the travelling got a little dull after a while). And I don't at all agree that they make games kiddie. Visuals don't determine maturity in my eyes. Gameplay, ingenuity and challenge do. Treasure, one of the most underrated video game companies out there, makes games with simple cartoony graphics, but load them with challenge and genius gameplay, where lots of games that people consider "mature" usually have shoddy controls, lackluster and uncreative visuals, awful dialogue (in attempt to sound adult) and cliche plot lines--and worst of all, they're rarely fun once you get past the violence. And this is coming from someone who loves FPS games, so it's not like I'm against violence or anything. I just think it's just the new "3-d," in that lots of companies use it to sell games whether it's better or not.

On the flip side, games like Windwaker, which may look kiddie, actually offer well-designed levels, solid controls, thoughtful puzzles and some challenge beyond struggling with the bad play-control and crappy AI.

So no, I have nothing against cel-shading when it's done well. The only cases that have really impressed me, though, were Jet Set and Windwaker.

December 25th, 2003, 07:30 PM
I'm totally with you on cel-shaded games not just meaning that it's a kid's game, from what little I've seen of XIII, it does have some blood, and of course it's an FPS. But for the most part, cel-shaded=kiddie game. You do have a good point with the Mature games though, Max Payne quickly came to mind when you mentioned bad dialogue....though it was so overdone, I have to assume it was for comedic value, just so that I don't think about how stupid they were....(I really, really hope they weren't serious about the dialogue....)

Anyway, there are good games and there are bad games, doesn't matter what they look like.

December 25th, 2003, 09:19 PM
Anyway, there are good games and there are bad games, doesn't matter what they look like.

Most definitely.

December 25th, 2003, 09:31 PM
And yeah...Max Payne is melodramatic as all hell. But I found it really funny in that case, and I assume the people making it were doing so with a sense of humor. If they weren't, then I'll fart in their general direction.

December 25th, 2003, 09:40 PM
LOL, like I said, I really, really hope they did it for humor, even then it pains me it was so bad.

Anyway, in the spirit of general discussion, I recommend going here (http://www.xbox.com/en-us/xboxtv/) even if you don't have an Xbox (and you have broadband, preferably), great selection of trailers for a ton of different games, I recommend Fable, especially. Speaking of Fable, the game looks and sounds like it's going to kick ass.

December 25th, 2003, 11:30 PM
Don't worry, Dom. I'm buying an x-box as soon as Fable comes out. I'm not missing that game for anything. And I believe their trailer won some sort of award, which is great, because it was friggin' genius.

But thanks for the link. Some cool previews I haven't seen on there yet.

December 25th, 2003, 11:31 PM
Yeah, it's a really great part of xbox.com, hey, when you get an Xbox, get Live!, then we can be buddies and talk. :)

December 25th, 2003, 11:37 PM
I couldn't believe it when they made a big deal after the first preview of Windwaker. I've never played a cell-shaded game so my opinion counts for little, and it's good that something new is being brought to the table, but give me 3D graphics anyday.

BTW, do cell-shaded PC games run way better than normal ones?

December 25th, 2003, 11:42 PM
I would imagine so, just the nature of the amount of rendering does must make it much less intensive of a graphical game, but I've never played one on a PC, so I can't say for certain....