[Hobbit]

Alternatively, you could talk about the other books in the series here, as long as you stick

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in the post.


I hope this doesn't give it away too much, Trent, but here's some examples that i can remember for starters. Please remember though that my intention here is not for a religious debate, nor am I attacking or defending either viewpoint, though :) The last thing I'm trying to do here is a create a pro-Pullman, anti-Lewis rant - or vice versa! Pullman has also been a shock for many who have bought (or been bought) the books once they have read the latest Harry Potter and are looking for somone else! :


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Lyra is from a dysfunctional family, with a father and a mother who don't exactly follow traditional Christian family values - nuclear family, loving and caring background, mother cares for children, etc etc. Here her mother is a career-driven abducter of children who tortures children, for example.

Indeed Lyra herself is not the morally upright citizen that the children of Narnia perhaps are - she fights, she steals, she shirks her work and studies when at Oxford, and yet we grow to like her.

Will kills someone.... and yet we like him.

Lorek is an antihero with issues - unlike the noble Aslan. He fights, he drinks (I think?). Aslan as I remember it fights when he has to. Lorek fights for revenge. Yet he is noble too.

Dust is seen as a threat to Christian beliefs.

The role of 'angels' and 'daemons' is greyer in Pullman's. Is it intentional that daemons/demons are seen in a sympathetic light, as an essential part of the person's being, as 'good guys' in the Pullman books? Don't think Lewis would say that, he'd be more in favour of the Angel's being more virtuous, I think.

Also the role of the Witches, who are given a much more sympathetic view, and rather sad I thought, compared with the evil Queen of Narnia.

And then there's the whole loss of innocence/Garden of Eden thing (much more prominent later), decline of religious values etc etcs. Here (http://www.crisismagazine.com/october2001/feature4.htm) is a religious website's view on the whole series. (SPOILERS!) It also claims that Pullman is anti-Harry Potter as well!

There are others, but these are what I can think of to start with...

More are mentioned here (http://www.thestranger.com/2000-12-14/books.html) and here (http://www.kidsreads.com/authors/au-pullman-philip.asp) and here too (http://www.hackwriters.com/NorthernLights.htm) BUT THERE ARE SPOILERS - be careful!

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And Nimea, you can join in anytime...the threads are usually left open for that purpose. :)

Hobbit

[Nimea]

I know, Hobbit, but I like to join the discussion during the appointed month. Next month, next book . . . :)

And I like FicusFan's idea. Start another thread - otherwise (posting spoiler tags) it might lead the discussion here into another direction. That might not be good for those like me - that have not read all the books.

:)

[ChrisW]

I did enjoy this book but I felt the characters a tad to shallow for my liking. It just got worse in the next two. That's all I can remember:) .

[fluffy bunny]

*Spoiler possibilities*


Didn't realise this but:

Curiously absent from Northern Lights are four words that are prevalent in most fantasy adventures: right, wrong, good, and evil.

On the last page of the book, Lyra and Pantalaimon recognize that they are still "one being; both of us are one." The expression resonates with a phrase from marriage ceremonies.


What did people think about the 'betrayal'? I have seen betrayal portyayed like this in other books, but not that many to be honest.

A few questions I found on other sites:

What is the relationship between "severing" and death? Is the author using this fantasy to explore the notion of psychic or moral death?

Why do you think the author stresses that Lyra is not an imaginative child? Why would "imagination" be dangerous to her? How would it affect her understanding of the alethiometer? Is Lyra a truth-seeker? Who is Lyra Belacqua and/or what does she symbolize?

[rune]

Originally posted by fluffy bunny
*Spoiler possibilities*





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On the last page of the book, Lyra and Pantalaimon recognize that they are still "one being; both of us are one." The expression resonates with a phrase from marriage ceremonies.

I didnt look too deeply into this phrase, perhaps some readers try and see more than there actually is

What is the relationship between "severing" and death? Is the author using this fantasy to explore the notion of psychic or moral death?

I did find this part of the plot interesting. Quite a mature subject in the plot. One of the few.

Why do you think the author stresses that Lyra is not an imaginative child? Why would "imagination" be dangerous to her? How would it affect her understanding of the alethiometer? Is Lyra a truth-seeker? Who is Lyra Belacqua and/or what does she symbolize?

This was one of the things that spoiled the story a bit for me. It seemed so unnecessary to keep repeating some of Lyra's characteristics. And lets be honest an uniminative character isn't half as interesting. I didnt link it to her use of the Alethiometer, in fact I thought that ability was one of her best and lifted the character.

rune

[FicusFan]

Fluffy,

Your questions look very good and thought provoking. It just makes me realize how little I retain from my previous reading. I don't know if I will have a chance to brush up on the book, but if so I will - just to be able to do your questions justice.

[Yobmod]

I read this a while back, it was good. The language was a bit simple, but not enough to put me off.
I liked the daemons and thought the witches were very cool, they were supposed to be mysterious and remained that way. lots of fantasy books like to have mysterious races, but the mystery usually disapears as soon as anyone bothers to ask any questions.

I was hoping to find that the daemons were in some way detrimental, causing a shortened life span or something, or that the severed kids dies from withdrawal as opposed to the daemons being essential. also the witches didn't have them, so had a different source of power.
But the daemons all being good and necessary meant i didn't feel any moral ambiguity. The baddies were bad and the goodies good, and i never felt the baddies might have understandable reasons for what they did.

[Blacknarcissa]

Yes, thanks for starting this off, Ficus.
One point that I realised after reading the first book was that Pullman has deliberately (to me, anyway) set out to write an 'anti-Narnia book' Where CS Lewis uses Narnia to promote certain values and attitudes, Pullman tends to show the opposite view. (This becomes much more obvious in the later books of the series, I think).

Hobbit

Well, yeah.. i listened to a interveiw he gave and he said that he created this book because of his dislike towards religious people who want to force religion onto others not because he is not religious himself, but i must add that when i read this book the whole religion based plot was new to me so i did enjoy it.. i would not reccommend it to someone who is reading it purely for fantasy ..stuff.. 'ness.. God. *Breathes*:(

[Blackadder]

As an aside, I'm also going to give a thumbs up to the recent BBC dramatisation of the books in there series too. Terence Stamp is great as Lyra's father.

Hobbit

I heard about this, but I haven't got a chance to check it out.. Could you give me abit more info about that?

Also heard a rumor about someone making the trilogy into a Movie-trilogy... whats that all about?

I read it up to part 2 and then I stopped.. Just not my type of fantasy, but I would love to see a movie or a dramatisation of the story.

[AJ_]

Also heard a rumor about someone making the trilogy into a Movie-trilogy... whats that all about?


They're still filming The Golden Compass, but it's supposed to be out sometime in 2007. Nicole Kidman plays Mrs. Coulter.