[Zsinj]

You know, Ive always wondered, what does it mean when a dark fantasy/horror story is gothic? What are the elements that make it gothic? What defines gothic in a story? I've asked some of the people I know about this, and they don't seem to have very good explanations for it, so could someone here please explain to me what gothic exactly means? Thanks. :)

[Hobbit]

A lot of the term is due to the background to the term.

Gothic
1. adj. of or relating to the Goths or their language //
2. of a form of art, esp. architecture, which flourished in Europe from the late 12th c. to the Renaissance //
3. of or relating to a class of sensational novels of the late 18th and early 19th cc.dealing with macabre or mysterious events in medieval settings // (loosely) medieval // primitive, barbaric

4. Gothic architecture // Gothic type [fr. L. gothicus] - Gothic architecture, a development of the earliest Romanesque, spread from N.W. France to flourish all over Europe in the 12th-15th cc., as far afield as Finland, Portugal and Sicily. Each country tended to produce a national style of Gothic. Its distinguishing features are pointed or ogival arch, elaborate stone vaulted roofs, clustered columns and rich stone carving.

Development of technique led to high buildings with walls consisting very largely of windows, the great stresses being taken by the arches themselves, by pillars, and by buttresses, often flying buttresses. The Gothic church or cathedral, seeming to aspire eternally heavenwards, is naturally taken as a symbol of medieval spirituality.

But Gothic is a term applied also to castles, palaces and houses, as well as sculpture, painting and the minor arts (the word is here loosely used to mean 'of the later Middle Ages'). In France, England and Germany, Gothic can be seen mingled with Romanesque or merging into the later Flamboyant style.

A renewed appreciation of Gothic appeared in the 18th and early 19th cc. Interest in the Middle Ages became a cardinal doctrine of Romanticism and a symbol of revolt against rationalism. Scholarship developed, and 19th cc. architects in Europe and North America began to produce Gothic buildings of great correctness as well as some of high imagination. Gothic was also applied to municipal and industrial buildings, but by the 1880s the movement gave way to greater eclecticism.

So - think dark, subdued, moody, misty/foggy, remote/isolated, often based on ancient buildings or religious settings perhaps - graveyards, mausoleums, tombs, churches, castles etc. The architectural style of high stone (not brick) buildings and complicated architectural styles are often, but not always, the setting for such stories, - though the stories themselves have to be 'macabre or mysterious events - unexplained events, murders, ghosts, demons, devils, body parts etc.

Not sure myself that they have to be 'in medieval settings' (as suggested above - many of these stories are Edwardian or Victorian, and indeed have been suggested as the dark side of Victorian culture, obsessed with death and a possible afterlife, with even sexual elements to it too. Bram Stoker's Dracula (the book, not necessarily the film!) shows this.

Here is quite a good comment about Gothic Fiction too -

Often criticized for its sensationalism, melodramatic qualities, and its play on the supernatural, the Gothic novel dominated English literature from its conception in 1764 with the publication of The Castle of Otranto by Horace Walpole to its 'supposed' demise in 1820.

The genre drew many of its intense images from the graveyard poets, intermingling a landscape of vast dark forest with vegetation that bordered on excessive, concealed ruins with horrific rooms, monasteries and a forlorn character who excels at the melancholy.

A fabled spectre or perhaps a bleeding Nun were images often sought after by those who fell victim to the supernatural influences of these books.


There's a nice dictionary of gothic terms used in fiction, here (http://www2.gasou.edu/facstaff/dougt/goth.html) though not exclusive.

Hobbit

[Zsinj]

Thanx, Hobbit! :) That pretty well clears things up for me now. The definition was pretty much the way I interpreted it to be, but I just wanted to make sure. :D

[Hobbit]

No problem, Zsinj.

As a point of interest I have heard readers claim that parts of the Elric series as being Gothic.

Not sure I agree with that, personally, but I think I can see what they're getting at.

Any thoughts yourself?

Hobbit

[Zsinj]

Yes, in reading it, I've found that it is indeed VERY gothic. That's one of the reasons why I love it so much! It has all the components of a gothic horror story, a doomed, tortured prince, dark satanic temples, cathedrals, and fortresses, mysterious, unexplainable happenings, terrifying encounters with monsters, demons, the undead, werewolves, wraiths, ghosts, and all other creatures of darkness, etc. So yes, I would say that he Elric Saga is DEFINITELY gothic.

[Hobbit]

LOL..... now you put it like that..... :D

I was thinking more of the Victorian gloomy ghost story. :)

...but there are spirits, aren't there - and possession etc etc....

Quite often the simple answer I seem to see (particularly in movies) is that Gothic = Gore.

Might be interesting to see how Halle Berry's Gothika turns out...

Hobbit

[Zsinj]

...but there are spirits, aren't there - and possession etc etc

There are spirits, yes, but I haven't seen anything about possession yet.

[Hobbit]

The possession of Stormbringer the blade and its effects on Elric could be considered that... possibly?

Hobbit

[Zsinj]

The possession of Stormbringer the blade and its effects on Elric could be considered that... possibly?

Oh yeah! **HITS SELF IN THE HEAD** DUH!! Why didn't I consider that?!! :o

[Hobbit]

LOL..... don't worry, it happens to all of us....

*shuffles major errors under the carpet* :D

OK - lets widen it out a bit here. Has anyone any thoughts on 'definitive' gothic novels or stories?

I'm going to suggest obvious ones here to start - Bram Stoker's Dracula.

What about HP Lovecraft?

Or Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast series?

Or - trying to be a little more contemporary - Laurell K Hamilton / Anita Blake?


Any other suggestions?

Hobbit