[Mugwump]

Okay, after wading through most of Neal Stephenson’s Snow Crash – I still don’t know what to make of it – I’m beginning to wonder: what is it that drives authors working in the Cyberpunk genre to leech every last bit of personality out of their characters?

Taking William Gibson, Stephenson and Walter Jon Williams as just three examples – I don’t recall ever liking (or disliking) any of their creations. It’s almost as if they have been designed to emulate the dispassionate computerised world that surrounds them.

Not that I don't appreciate any of the authors listed above. Gibson’s Neuromancer is one of the finest works of fiction I’ve ever come across. It’s just that I sometimes find it jarring to switch between works featuring strong character development (anything by Le Guin, Silverberg, Michael Moorcock and so forth) and the emotionless environment of Cyberpunk.

[MindsEye]

“It’s almost as if they have been designed to emulate the dispassionate computerised world that surrounds them.”

I think you’ve nailed it with that statement Mugwump. I know from personal experience (Being an IT geek) that friends and family have noticed a change in my personality as the years have passed.

I spend all day at work with my face tuned to my monitor and then when I get home it’s the same thing (Writing, Gamming, Graphics and INFO hoarding). I never really watch TV anymore, it’s just on in the background and I take a peek at it every once in a while. If someone phones me when I am on the computer, they get the cold shoulder so to speak. It’s not like I am trying to ignore them, but when I am writing or collecting information (Usually science papers for Sci-Fi inspiration) I have to finish my thought or satisfy my curiosity before I can avert my attention. The only thing that gets me off the computer is reading books (well girls, eating, sleeping, showering… etc. J ).

When I look at my little brothers (17, 19 Yrs. Old – I am 36) and compare how they are growing up now to how I grew up in the 70’s/80’s, it amazes me how little time they spend interacting with people on a personal level. Both talk with their girlfriends more with the cell phone and online than they do in person. If anything can have an affect on the development of a person’s personality (especially a young person), lack of person-to-person social skills is big in my opinion.

Now imagine a world that relies on computers even more than we do now and it’s not difficult to imagine a leveling of personality across the board. Then imagine people (Characters in Cyberpunk included) who spend more time than the average person does tuned into the digital world and I can definitely see your statement above being true IMHO. J

-Kell

[confused]

Basically, the perfect cyberpunk hero is a pair of mirror-shades and a laptop :-) They need to be the epitome of cool, with no human flaws. That said, I'd have a soft spot for Hiro Protagonist. Quote :
"i really think that I'm beginning to understand her (his ex-girlfriend). Wonderful things could happen"
"Hiro, you're a guy, she's a girl. You're not supposed to understand her"

[Mugwump]

Originally posted by confused
Basically, the perfect cyberpunk hero is a pair of mirror-shades and a laptop :-) They need to be the epitome of cool, with no human flaws.

But does this mean that they should me completely sterile of character?

[MindsEye]

Originally posted by Mugwump

But does this mean that they should me completely sterile of character?

I think "Sterile" is a strong word. Maybe a bit detached from norms we see in today’s society, but look at the universe their worlds are set in (Case and Hiro in particular), they are on the verge of a post-human society. People spend lots (if not most) of their time in virtual, detached from humanity as we know it.

How will our personalities change/suffer when we won't have to leave our houses to do anything (work, play, socialize, shop)? When we climb out of our virtual existence to enter the real world, will all our social graces be intact, or will we carry the same confidence we have when we are masquerading behind our avatar in virtual?

I think the flat personalities of our beloved cyberpunk heroes make the stories more realistic.

-Kell

[FicusFan]

I have to agree with you about the POV character from Snowcrash being what I would call completely beige. I didn't really like him and I didn't really dislike him. I haven't read a lot of other pure cyberpunk stuff, mostly stuff inspired by it. But from what I have read they seem to be more about image than substance. They also seem to play with the language, chopping and blending and not real big on detail, description or even sentence continuity. As though you are listening through a wall and hear every other or every third word in a conversation. It keeps it edgy if you haven't a clue what is going on.

In terms of Snowcrash I looked at it like a comic come to life, and didn't expect much but a silly good time and I enjoyed it. But I wouldn't read Snowcrash II, nor have I rushed out and bought any other Stephenson. I did read In the Beginning Was the Command Line which is a non-fiction musing about the start and state (at the time it was written) of the computer culture from the geek's perspective. I also have The Big U which I haven't read yet - it is about college life. But that is probably it for his works.

And don't even get me started about Bruce Sterling. I belong to a book group locally and we have a member who periodically inflicts him on us. He is just incapable of telling a story.

[btv]

I'm not sure if most sci-fi readers are actually looking for depth in the characters (note "most" - not all). It's certainly easier to write about something not real using equally unreal 2 dimensional characterisations. They typically just have to be good, or good at something - even if its being bad, weak, etc.

Check the non-sci-fi McNab books about an ex-SAS character. These are all 1st person, but the guy depicted is as full of human frailty as he has strengths, skills, and determination. He sets himself up as an almost no-hoper almost made good - and seems satisfied with that. He also acknowledges when things are beyond him (physically or intellectually) and just says "OK - get on with what I can do". The stories themselves are only fair, but reliving this alter-life is a bit addictive.

I reckon if someone could capture this personification with the flare of SF they'd be a billionaire. Neal Asher is the closest I have seen with "The Skinner", but he even ran out of steam?

[Expendable]

No Palace or Blaxxun users here ;)

Haven't you ever used a graphical chat? or is that a little too much sci fi?

Maybe what's confusing you is who cyberpunk stories are about - its not the people in them but the society that they're in. That's the character in the stories.

Imagine yourself in that world, where knowledge is power and data rules over all. Who would you trust with the real you?

[phil_geo]

I seem to enjoy Stephenson more than most people on this thread!

There's a difference between a character having depth, and being written anti-social on purpose. Yes, I agree that most cyberpunk writers write their heros to be more comfortable in the cyber world than they are in the real world. That's kind of the point. They are anti-social, emotionally distant personality types.

But the characters can have plenty of depth. The way Hiro's relationship with Juanita has failed and his complex history with his father and the samurai swords are a couple of examples of a complex, self-consistant, detailed background for an anti-social hacker.

Stephenson shows he can write other personality types with cahracters like Raven and Juanita. Raven has a personality disorder, but is much more social and interactive in the real world, and the other is a confident, A-type personality that is very different than Hiro. YT is a very non-cyberpunk character, with plenty of emotion. How could you not like YT?

So emotionally distant, yes, some of them are. Difficult to like because of that, yes. But lack of depth? Nah, I think the lack of emotion is clearly intentional for the characters that require it, and the depth is there.

"Did you win the swordfight?"
"Of course I won the ****ing swordfight. I'm the greatest swordsman in the world."

[FicusFan]

Originally posted by phil_geo

"Did you win the swordfight?"
"Of course I won the ****ing swordfight. I'm the greatest swordsman in the world."

When I was say, ten, that might have interested me, but now I require a bit more in terms of depth, involvement, dialog, reflection, emotion and description.

In adult terms that guy also sounds too much like the nutcase high on road rage who thinks he is god as he speeds down the road and tries to use it all. Why would I want to spend time with this type of person for enjoyment ? I just don't get it.