[Thoughtcriminal84]

This may seem a bit childish and out of place here, but have you noticed how badly *most* american animation sucks? Good lord, I just finished wasting my time with "Heavy Metal 2000", and I have to rant a little or i'm going to go Nucking futz...
When so many animation projects are either science fiction or fantasy based, why the hell aren't the fans of the genre raising absolute snot storms over this? Sub-par animation (or strange and somewhat repulsive stylistic rendition, such as in Disney's "hercules") is a death blow for a great deal of popular interests. You want the populace to turn to animation in the theaters? Follow the Nipponese way of animation, which is "quality in execution". Maybe you don't like the way they draw the pictures, but you have to admit, the production values are far superior *generally*
Anyway...

[Thoughtcriminal84]

by the way, yes, I am aware most of the cartoons avaliable in america are actually drawn and produced in the east. Doesn't matter...it can be better. We should riot.

[drakon]

I don't know much about american animation but I am small fan of japanese cartoons/comics('Battle angel Alita', sailor moon, akira etc.).
I also like the Witchbalde series though and I just checked and saw that at least by namme the artists are american.
as far as the Disney movies go, imo that is a totally different type of animation and shouldn't be compared to manga movies.

[Thoughtcriminal84]

yeah, i understand that, about how Disney is supposed to appeal to a different audience, but my beef is more with the lack of any other type of american animation of any quality...try watching cartoons some saturday morning, and tell me what you think of the general state of animation, compared to what it was like, say, ten to fifteen years ago. It's gone downhill in a major way. Either it's based upon a toy line and sucks (i.e. the new transformers cartoon), or it's based upon a premise that shouldn't have anymore than one movie to it (I.e. Men in Black)...
it's all crappy animation done for the sake of merchandising on the lowest common denominator, which in this case is kids...now, I realize that merchandising through cartoons is nothing new, but as far as I can tell, that's virtually all that's done anymore...and at least, with some of the things they used to do it was severly entertaining. Sorry if that doesn't make much sense, i'm on nothing but coffee and ramon noodles...

[Pluvious]

I agree, although I'm no expert on animation. Although I'm sure it has to do with (as you said) the audience being children. Perception is everything, and in the US cartoons are for kids. Until that changes most animators will be cultivating their skills along the lines of silly, fluffy, and less powerful artwork.

[Drewids]

I HATE japanese anime and that type of crap... I swear I'm going to become an epileptic just by watching these non-sensical flashing oblong faced characters. Give me the animation from Disney's Pocohontas or Beauty & the Beast (though the storylines are lame and inaccurate for the most part), but the drawing is easy on the eyes and easy to follow. The Japanese stuff gives me a complete headache and never has a decent storyline. The people who enjoy these are usually the same people who lke the bad kung-fu movies.

[Sojourn]

Drewids, it's never really fair to generalise an argument solely to make a point. Obviously, you don't watch much Japanese anime or aren't familiar with the vast range of animation and story-line styles in the genre. Saying that anime has 'non-sensical flashing oblong faced characters', 'never has a decent storyline' and that 'the people who enjoy these are usually the same people who like the bad kung-fu movies' is comparable to saying that Hollywood films are 'trashy, violent affairs which do nothing but glorify wanton brutality and sex'.

Moral of the story: Generalisation makes for weak arguments.

IMHO, Defender of Anime as a Cultural Revolution... ^_^

[Pluvious]

Right Sojourn. That would be like saying all people who make wide generalizations are unthinking chowder heads. It just wouldn't be accurate...

[Sojourn]

EXACTLY my point Pluvious!

Hehe, long live the 'chowder revolution'...

IMHO... ^_^

[Rob B]

It is cold here in New Jersey, I could really go for some New England Clam Chowder...

Seriously though, the only watchable *new* animation, IMHO, here in the US is Batman Beyond, Superman and the Simpson. At least we have the Cartoon Network which occasionally has some cool stuff (Thudercats HO!, Voltron) , in addition to classics like Tom & Jerry and Bugs Bunny, but I digress.

Akira is a PHENOMINAL film, and it is pretty old from what I understand, and some of the more recent Animae is even better, as many have said.

There are barely any cartoons on Saturday morinings any more, it is all the damned teen sitcom crap that started with Saved by the Bell (ugh!)

Don't even get me started on Disney, because we all know that the only two pure evil people ever to live are Hitler and Walt Disney. (Simpsons reference) The majority of Disney films have the exact same plot (at least the ones I have seen and they way they are advertised)--young self-absorbed, selfish character gets stuck in a jam, runs away from problems, eventually comes back to save the day and gets what they want despite being a snobbish little brat. Please, it is so trite and overdone. Though Aladdin and Beauty and the Beast were a little different.

Though I did not see Titan A.E., if that had caught on with the masses, it could have ushered in a wave of quality non-Disney animated films in America.

Then again, that is just my opinion, I could be wrong http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif