[Eventine]

I've got about a quarter of the book to go, but thought I'd brave the thread.

Here's some reactionary comments based on what's been said so far. More when I've finished:


I couldn't really decide throughout the book whether it was really pro-socialist or whether just the characters were pro-socialist and the author was setting it up to have the book be anti-socialist

I've found myself thinking the same thing. When reading someone like Mieville, who we know is an active socialist, it's easy to spot the socialist undercurrents to his works. Here however, it's the characters themselves that are conveying the socialist message (as opposed to the themes of the novel) which makes things a little harder to discern. I'd be interest in seeing an interview with Macleod re socialism in this novel (can't you snag one Fitz?).

I also found it to be slow--but a steady kind of slow rather than a boring kind of slow
I found it slow until Robbie visited London, and now I'm tearing through it. I think there's a period of acclimatising to the writing style before being able to get really stuck in (I also found this recently with reading Janny Wurts, who's also known for her "flowery prose")


I also found the parallels between Robert Borrows' story and that of Pip in Dickens' Great Expectations interesting - anyone have any theories on this aspect

This is where I once again kick myself for not having read enough of the classics.


It did not live up to my expectations. There is almost no action in it, and it got boring. Nothing in the book impressed me. It seemed slightly above mediocre. I kept expecting something that would move the book faster, but it just never happened. I really could not get into the characters either.
But to say in its defense is that it had a steady pace, there were no random sidequests, it was not particularily badly written, but still the overwhelming feeling I had at the end was of bitterness. I will not be reading any more of his books if they are similar to this.

I'm guessing you're looking for fantasy more in the heroic mould...


In terms of the theme in the book, I keep seeing aether as a substitute for coal.

That's a great insight. I hadn't thought of it before, and now it seems so obvious I'm kicking myself. I'd have to say though that it strikes me more as anti-coal. Both are mined resources, but aether represents glamour and an upper class, where as coal is more associated with filthiness and the lower classes (at least in my mind). Imagine a filthy chimney sweep in a black fog during our industrial London and then juxtapose this with a party full of people with aether-laced clothes imbibing wishfish. Now if I had some more time I could probably come up with a theory as to why he did this. Any takers?


OK, some brief comments of my own now:
I find Robbies relationship with Sadie quite strange at this point. He's an active socialist, yet associates with the upper class and has a relationship of sorts with Sadie. To me this seems to be a mechnism of getting closer to Anna, and even using Sadie as a replacement for Anna - when they first have sex Sadie has used the wishfish to appear more like Anna - if she hadn't done this would Robbie have slept with her? He'd not shown a lot of attraction to her before that.

I've recently read Newton's Cannon by Greg Keyes. It was interesting to see two novels set in a similar period, with a similar discovery of an alternative to modern science. So far I think The Light Ages does the job a lot better - Macleod's non-use of historical characters works a lot better for me.

A final question:
When does everyone think this novel took place on our calendar?

[knivesout]

I assume that it happened at the close of the 19th century. I can't afford support for this, but that seemed about right to me.

I wouldn't call the characterisation poor at all - in fact, I thought part of the wieghtiness of the book was just because people are described in such rich inner detail, as the narrator sees them.

[FicusFan]

That's a great insight. I hadn't thought of it before, and now it seems so obvious I'm kicking myself. I'd have to say though that it strikes me more as anti-coal. Both are mined resources, but aether represents glamour and an upper class, where as coal is more associated with filthiness and the lower classes (at least in my mind). Imagine a filthy chimney sweep in a black fog during our industrial London and then juxtapose this with a party full of people with aether-laced clothes imbibing wishfish. Now if I had some more time I could probably come up with a theory as to why he did this. Any takers?



You are only thinking of the negative aspects of coal, which I agree are a lot. But it had to have changed things for the upper and what middle-class they had at the time. It had to have changed their world and their technology, and they would have been removed from the dirtyness and the problems of extraction.

Didn't coal allow trains to travel where before you had to have a horse and carriage or walk ? It would have allowed a lot of the engines in factories and such to make goods and it created the industrial revolution which moved life from the country to the city. It had a huge impact that moved society forward, even if there was a cost. I know most of that is linked to steam engines, but didn't they burn coal to make the steam ?

So I think coal had both positive and negative sides and so it is similar to the aether and how it could hold up a building or turn you into a troll.

Haven't read far enough to comment on your views about Robbie and the women. It is still a bit of a boring slog to me, and I have been avoiding it. So far the only mildly interesting thing is what happened on the floor with the other engine and the aether 'head' - which is still just trickling out in small bits at around page 130.

[Eventine]

Disclaimer: My knowledge of history is sparse and learnt from television, hearsay and half remembered lessons at school where I was probably goofing off anyway...

You are only thinking of the negative aspects of coal, which I agree are a lot. But it had to have changed things for the upper and what middle-class they had at the time. It had to have changed their world and their technology, and they would have been removed from the dirtyness and the problems of extraction.


This is where urbanisation comes in as a theme for the novel. One difference between the coal of our world and the aether here is that the negative effects (environmentaly at least) are mainly limited to the rural areas where the aether is mined - aether crystals growing throughout an area as the supplies run low. Salinisation anyone?
However, coal use would have had a greater impact on urban areas - coal burning resulted in some nasty smogs and the like. I remember reading in Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere how many of London's churches and the like had to be cleaned after coal burning stopped to remove the black stains.

Coal and aether aren't mutually exclusive though, which pretty much makes my point redundant. There's mentions of steam engines and coal fires throughout the book. And I agree with your comments regarding coal use, mainly what I was getting around to was trying to illustrate the glamour of aethe

[FicusFan]

Coal and aether aren't mutually exclusive though, which pretty much makes my point redundant. There's mentions of steam engines and coal fires throughout the book. And I agree with your comments regarding coal use, mainly what I was getting around to was trying to illustrate the glamour of aethe

I am not all that up on the history of this period either. I just think there was probably from the POV of the upper and middle classes a view of coal as glamerous for what it provided for them in terms of ease, novelties, and luxuries. I am trying to see the world through their eyes and without our knoweldge and prejudices.

I agree it is hard for us to accept. But not too long ago cigarette smoking was seen as glamerous and now in most civilized places it is seen as disgusting, and suicidal.

I think you are right about the black soot and smog, but most 'ladys' went around all veiled up when they went out at all, and the upper classes had their country houses to spend time in when the environment in the city go too nasty.

Perhaps the aether is more like radium? Its a mineral I think that might have also been mined, and it glowed and was seen as glamerous and beautiful and mysterious, but it was also radioactive and eventually killed you.

I am at page 170 now and I agree with the person who said it reminds them of Great Expectations. The first part in London also reminded me of The Dress Lodger which is about a poor prostitute who paints plates with radium, and uses a fancy dress to sell her body in. But she has to hire the dress because she is too poor to buy it. The story is set in a factory town and maybe in the 1700s and not the as late as this. It also reminds me of The Crimson Petal and the White which is also about a young prostitute, but in Victorian London.

[Eventine]

Radium is probably a better example, especially considering Robbie's mothers occupation as a young lady.

[Luke_B]

I am at page 170 now and I agree with the person who said it reminds them of Great Expectations.

Robbie and Anna are an homage to Pip and Estella.

I've found myself thinking the same thing. When reading someone like Mieville, who we know is an active socialist, it's easy to spot the socialist undercurrents to his works. Here however, it's the characters themselves that are conveying the socialist message (as opposed to the themes of the novel) which makes things a little harder to discern. I'd be interest in seeing an interview with Macleod re socialism in this novel (can't you snag one Fitz?).

I think with this novel Macleod displays that he shares the post-Marxist scepticism about the possibility of successful revolution.

[tdeanatoz@yahoo]

I first started reading this novel when it first came out in hardback. I was to about page 80 when I found out that MacLeod was busy writing a sequel novel, "Electricity." What with the complexity and detail of this alternate world, it was an easy decision to hold off finishing it until the sequel was available. Retitled "The House of Storms," this sequel will be available in the UK in Feb. 2005 and the US in May 2005.

MacLeod is one of my all-time favorite authors, and "The Light Ages" is one of the few stories of his that I have not read yet! I would highly recommend his collection "Breathmoss and Other Exhalations," as well as his other novel, "The Great Wheel," which I still consider the best science fiction novel of 1997.

[Eventine]

I finished this up last week but have been way too busy to post before now.

I'm going to talk about the end here so you have been warned Ficus....





Righto.
I thought the bittersweet ending really worked well for the novel. The happy ending wouldn't have worked - Anna was always too different for Robbie, and her final position (as well as the parallels with Goldenwhite) is more fitting.

I also liked how Miss Summerton caused the creation of Anna via the chalcedony. It fit well, and it made the cause-and-effect chain click for me.

A bit I didn't like as much was the shadowy figure being an extension of aether attempting to perpetuate itself. I don't think the story needed that extension of motive - Miss Sumerton's actions and those of Anna's father were well enough explained without that element.

Another I would have liked to have seen was a post age-change collapse as the aether stores diminished rather than their renewal, but I didn't write the book so it's not really up to me to say how it should have ended.

The last line of the book really summed up Robbie for me - he always seemed to me to be a follower than a leader. From his initial encounters with Saul to his passion for Anna, he never struck me as an instigator for change. Maybe it's because I never understood why he became a socialist - whether it was because of Saul, or some reaction to his mothers death or if he actully felt passionately about it.
However, at the end he does drive the change to a new age, and it doesn't really fit with me because I didn't understand why he had his political views.


Sorry if that's all garbage, I'm a bit scattered at the moment. Too many christmas parties...

[Eventine]

On a side note:

I'm currently reading Iron Council. It's interesting to be reading two books acout social revolution in succession.

You've finished Iron Council Erf - care to make any comments or comparison between the two?