[Leiali]

My first thread in ages, but I wanted to ask Scott Bakker about the question of philosophy. The two writers I have read that who seem to fully explore philosophy in Science Fiction and Fantasy are Scott Bakker and David Zindell (Neverness Series).
I wondered what people think of the fact that the basic questions in life are constantly asked and explored in Sci Fi and fantasy, and why Scott Bakker chooses such a shady character to represent the 'true philosopher' in his stories.

This is a bit garbled but make of it what you will!

[Scott Bakker]

I'm not at all familiar with Zindell...

I think SF's privileged relation to 'ideas' has to do with the way it automatically 'recontextualizes' our modern dilemmas, and so offers different angles of interpretation. I think F's privileged relation has something to do with this as well, but I also think that the fact so many F worlds are pre-scientific also makes them ideal settings for overt philosophical ramblings: before science, philosophy could still claim that it was the king of the knowledge mountain. Philosophers actually had credibility!

If by 'shady character' you mean, Kellhus :D , then there's a sense in which (and I know this will likely strike you as impossible) he's actually the least philosophical character in the book. Once you give up on reason as a means to finding answers to the 'big questions,' then it simply becomes the way of getting what you want. A tool of self-interest.

[Leiali]

If by 'shady character' you mean, Kellhus :D , then there's a sense in which (and I know this will likely strike you as impossible) he's actually the least philosophical character in the book. Once you give up on reason as a means to finding answers to the 'big questions,' then it simply becomes the way of getting what you want. A tool of self-interest.

I think I see what you mean! I always thought that communication skills could be honed to a very intricate level - I work with counsellors and there is just no point getting into discussion with them sometimes, they always know exactly how to make a point in such a way...

I think going back to the philosophy thing though, that it has always been a bit of a thorny issue for me. In various experiences at university and in some reading in the past, I have been frustrated by the pedantic approaches used to language in exploring the 'big questions', ! Splitting hairs is all well and good, but it doesn't solve the question! However, I respond to it with enthusiasm in Fantasy and Sci Fi. I am guessing that you have a little more patience than I, but can I ask what drew you to writing this series in such a light? What your influences have been and where on earth Kelhus comes from in your experience - you must have started somewhere...

[Scott Bakker]

I always thought Kellhus just leapt into my head whole-cloth until someone on my fansite pointed out all the parallels to various things you find in Dune. I remember first coming up with the idea after reading Douglas Hoftstadter's Metamagical Themas, particularly with reference to his essays on psychics and something called memes. I now think those combined with the Bene Gesserit in Dune sparked him in my imagination. It truly was one of those 'Eureka!' type moments.

My philosophical influences as they pertain to the book are eclectic - where to begin! Nietzsche and Aristotle are definitely the biggies, with Heidegger a very close third, followed by Sextus Empiricus, perhaps. What I tried to draw from these three jokers was a sense of how alien (and yet familiar) ancient approaches to the big questions could be. Since I worked on the book while I was working on my graduate degrees (in theory & criticism and philosophy) it was probably inevitable that the story be philosophical in its own right. Fantasy and philosophy are my two passions, and it just so happens they fit, hand-in-glove. Perhaps because they're versions of one another. :D

[Leiali]

I imagine he was lurking around in your brain waiting to exist. I must confess quite a serious lack of knowledge when it comes to philosophy, so you kind of lost me after Aristotle. I did a degree in English Literature and only dabbled in a bit of political philosophy...My knowledge is encompassed by Sophie's World, and of course, The Monty Python's Philosophers song. :o

Can you tell us more about the Metamagical Themas? I am not familiar with that either and it sounds quite intriguing. First things first, is it a medieval text?

[Scott Bakker]

Definitely not Medieval! The subtitle to the book is, 'An Interlocked Collection of Literary, Scientific, and Artistic Studies.' It's essentially a collection of his Scientific American essays with addendums attached. It's somewhat dated now (sinces he continually references science to make his arguments), but still a very interesting book.

As for philosophy, I think the Monty Python song says it all!

[Asraloth]

My philosophical influences as they pertain to the book are eclectic - where to begin! Nietzsche and Aristotle are definitely the biggies, with Heidegger a very close third, followed by Sextus Empiricus, perhaps. :D

ahh, yes, i knew it. as i read TDTCB, I could see some Nietzche thrown in there, especially with regards to Kellhus. a "superman" if ever i've seen one.

[Scott Bakker]

It's actually not what people think, but I'll have to let The Thousandfold Thought sort it all out. Here's my favourite review on precisely this topic (amazon is the only place where it's posted).

Books in Canada (http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/books/0143012800/reviews/ref=cm_rev_more_2/701-7594825-8017925)

Lemme know what you think...

[Asraloth]

Ok, now that i read that review, i can sort of see how Cnauir more than Kellhus represents that Nietzche ideal. hmmm, interesting, i suppose i was seeing Kellhus that way because he could do "super" things.

[saintjon]

That isn't the first time I've seen Cnaiur referred to as another shade of superman, but I never really clued into him in that light when I read The Darkness That Comes Before.

I did pick up on the bestial aspect of him, Cnaiur seems to be all about passion. There don't seem to be shades of grey in Cnaiur's mind, it's like his thoughts flare around a big blast furnace.

I know Cnaiur made an effort to be the most scylvendi of all scylvendi as a recompensation sort of thing, but when he fights, is that his true self (as I originally figured) or is it only the best example of him trying to fulfill his concept of the Scylvendi ideal?