[Scott Bakker]

So how about it? Just what is that writers DO to readers?

I literally look at my craft the way Kellhus would: as an exercise in manipulation...

[juzzza]

I'm not sure if you are manipulating.

You can suggest worlds and characters and of course you can state actions and things that have been said, but an author's perception of their work and a reader's are usually quite different.

I don't think a book can manipulate any more than sitting on a bench and viewing a scene unfold before you, it can influence, sure, manipulate? Questionable.

[Prunesquallor]

a scene unfolding before you can manipulate, if it is contrived for that purpose.

[kahnovitch]

I don't think a book can manipulate any more than sitting on a bench and viewing a scene unfold before you, it can influence, sure, manipulate? Questionable.

I agree.

No insult intented to you Scott, but you must think some readers are a tad weak-minded, if they can be manipulated so easily.

I thought Stover was the Jedi master around here anyway? ;)

[saintjon]

Um, I dunno about you guys but when I cry over the deaths of people who weren't alive in the first place I can't help but feel that's a pretty handy display of manipulation.

[Leiali]

You may want to differentiate between the manipulation of emotions, and the manipulation of ideas, which is a greater feat, but less possible I think.

The manipulation of emotions is definitely a requirement in a good epic series, particularly if a reader is moved to tears. But I don't consider it an underhanded thing so much as a craft - like manipulating clay, as it is a surface enjoyment much of the time.

However, a novel that attempts to manipulate ideas without stating a bald case (so any political books for example which insinuate an unsavoury belief without coming out and saying it) and letting the reader decide is something to be treated with extreme caution. Though I don't think it is out of the question to think that if I suspend my disbelief for a book it would apply throughout including issues I don't necessarily agree with. My example there would probably be that you didn't manipulate me enough there to think that it was ok to have the female characters in subjugated roles ;)

Going back to the Kelhus thing, there is a famous magician/entertainer here in the UK called Derrin Brown, and chatting with some friends recently, I couldn't help but think that he reminded me of Kelhus. He recently did a series where he went around trying to debunk certain mystical things - mediums, evangelical miracles etc. It was fascinating, he seems to be a master at manipulation also... His method was to go into a situation, make people believe him, and then tell them it was all based on manipulation rather than faith or truth. He had to go to the states to do this as we all know who he is here. I think everyone he came across believed him utterly as he is so good at what he does. I find that extremely creepy but fascinating at the same time!
I wondered if anyone else has had the same thought there? That he is similar in some way?

[Hereford Eye]

So how about it? Just what is that writers DO to readers? I literally look at my craft the way Kellhus would: as an exercise in manipulation...
Writing to do something TO readers would seem to me be propoganda, a kind of writing that has a legitimate place in the world. Writing to do something FOR people is another matter and that - I think - is the role of fiction.

[Leiali]

Well said Hereford Eye, I totally agree. Though I do think that the line you draw probably does get blurred - I'm thinking bad self help books here, not sure why as I don't read them.

[Asraloth]

So how about it? Just what is that writers DO to readers?

I literally look at my craft the way Kellhus would: as an exercise in manipulation...


Okay then, Scott, but what exactly are you trying to manipulate us into? What is your ingenious plan? World domination perhaps? :D

[Gary Wassner]

Uh oh, Scott. Do I sense some grand plan to convert all the unsuspecting believers into non-believing nihilists?

You should disguise yourself better if that's your intention, my friend.