[Akdor 1154]

A little offtopic, but:

In our school as part of the Year 9 curriculum (damn Howard) we read the two Phillip Gwynne books - Deadly Unna and Nukkin Ya. Although the book is by a guy, and the narrating character is a guy, the book is very character-driven. Naturally, we have to do chapter summaries (evil, pure evil), but most girls in the class seem to like books like this with believable characters. Reading this thread's made me think a bit (oh, the pain :rolleyes:) but I can see what you are all saying about different writing styles. Interestingly, lately there have been a few articles in the Green Guide and PC Gaming magazines about woman and computer games - surveys are showing that that (as a majority, so I don't upset any radical feminists) girls like character-based games (i.e. the Sims, most role-playing games, etc.) and guys like more hero/goal oriented ones (Halo or any other shooters, civilisation/military strategy, etc.) My friend at school echoes these stats - she likes Icewind Dale, but try as I might I can't get her to play Halo.

Something has just occured to me - there is a game around called Deus Ex - it mixes shooters and role-playing elements, and it pays off! I might ask around their forums, see what the girls say... it's characters are some of the most memorable from a game, ever!

[alison]

All too true on the rpgs, though I am rather addicted to the mindless slash'n'burn aspect of Baldur's Gate. But mainly I think I enjoy building up my vast fortune (25 million gold pieces). Haven't tried Halo, but that's like Perfect Dark, isn't it? I just get shot in two seconds and then lose interest...

[Akdor 1154]

Lol, that sounds exactly the same as my friend at school (female)! Freaky.
I got Diablo II from EB, and got bored pretty quick; I understand this is a bit of a shallow RPG, though.

Halo is AWESOME! There's nothing more fun than standing in the back of a Warthog (military jeep thingy) wreaking chain-gun havoc on flying alien Banshees... but then again, I am a guy here, so enjoy this sort of pointless immature behaviour ;)

[KatG]

Isn't it amazing how much is added to the list of things writers can't do. A male can't write females, a female can't write males, if you're white you can't write black characters and if you're black you can't write Asian characters, and on and on.

Charles de Lint writes great, strong female characters. In fact, I think he likes them better than his males. The males he has are not very macho either, but quite believable, and he has lots of male fans. I can think of many male writers who write good female characters, sometimes leads. And I can think of lots of female writers who do excellent males, Annie Proulx among them. Men may get bashed in general for not having as much empathy in daily life as women, but that doesn't mean male writers are incapable of empathy, of putting themselves in different shoes. Of course, I'm a female trying to write a story with a male lead, so I'm biased in view.

I think the computer game market has hit on something, but over-emphasizes it. Myst, for instance, was a huge hit with both males and females, and I know quite a few females who like to play Doom. I think guys enjoy character as much as girls in games, but they also enjoy straight target practice. Many girls are very competitive and are goal-oriented, but maybe not as inclined to compete at a computer game versus other stakes. Plus, there's the very simple fact that the gaming companies only recently started marketing any games to women. It's kind of like women in sports -- they've just started to notice we're there, and the assumption is that we're completely different.

[Akdor 1154]

Men may get bashed in general for not having as much empathy in daily life as womenBut is that the men's fault, or our culture?

[KatG]

Don't know. Perhaps it is their mothers. Or their fathers. Maybe men just deal with empathy in different ways that women don't find acceptable. :) But men are capable of great empathy and certainly can project themselves into another's viewpoint.

[Akdor 1154]

Or maybe the ones that can do this are the only ones that can get a publisher? ;)

[sillysod]

I'd refer interested readers to Michael Moorcock's The Champion of Garathorm. Moorcock is a self-confessed feminist, but in this particular book at least, he treats his heroine as similar to a hero with breasts, although she isn't quite two-dimensional. The view at least interesting, if not agreeable.

I think this debate owes a lot to the media, which keeps trying to tell us that women and men are different species. I believe that while they are different, this does not mean that they have nothing in common or that they speak different languages. The gap is at least somewhat bridgeable. Or at least I hope so. :)

[alison]

I think this debate owes a lot to the media, which keeps trying to tell us that women and men are different species. I believe that while they are different, this does not mean that they have nothing in common or that they speak different languages. The gap is at least somewhat bridgeable. Or at least I hope so.

Not just the media, but in all the conditioning and countless other signals with which we're raised in our societies - the books you read, the education you're given, how you're treated in babyhood, etc etc etc. It's all very complicated.

Men and women are, generally speaking, different. But the similarities are to my mind more striking: after all, we share an overwhelming majority of genetic material as opposed to that little "Y" chromosone. It depends what you focus on. I get worried about those simplistic "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" ideologies (and other debates that focus on "hardwiring", as if we are really analogues of computers), in part because they can be self fulfilling: if women are told they're only interested in love and men are told they're only interested in sex, then that is how they will be behave. To, I might add, the considerable confusion of each.

[Silvia]

Im just going to jump in here and say i think your right alison it is the way that we are educated that makes us diffrent well in my oppinion anyway its starts in about primary school,maybe even before that.