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Zsinj February 6th, 2005, 04:30 PM This is something I've always wondered myself. One of the chief reasons I'm weary about reading the Chronicles of Narnia is because it's a Christian allegory, however, my sister has read like four books in the series and says it's not allegorical to her at all.
I'm a Christian myself, but I feel that fantasy should be an escape from the reality and the religion of this world, or the religion I believe in, to be exact. If I want to be preached to, I'll go to church.
Bearing that in mind, I fail to understand why some Christians want to see an allegory in fantasies that are obviously not meant to be allegorical. They've done it with the old Beowulf and Le Morte De Artur, and they've done it with modern fantasies such as the LOTR Saga, Harry Potter, The Wheel of Time, Weis & Hickman's Dragonlance Sagas, R.A. Salvatore's Dark Elf Series and Demonwar Series, the list goes on and on. My question is why do some Christians do this? Why can't they see fantasy as what it is: fantasy, just a story, and just enjoy it? Are they afraid that if they don't see allegories in the stories, they're of the devil? Why do they do this?
Starson February 6th, 2005, 06:41 PM I, myself, am a Christian. And there are times when I have read something and thought "that seems to parallel the story of Christ, " but I don't go looking for it. I really don't see it in the LOTR, or any of the works you mentioned (except one), although some may have more active imaginations than me. I do see some Biblical parallels in Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel series, though, with the angels, etc.
As for the Chromicles of Narnia, they are most definitely allegorical. C.S. Lewis intended this. How old is your sister, Zsinj? When I first read them sometime before I was 10, I didn't see the allegory in any of the books except The Lion, the With and the Wardrobe. I didn't see it in the rest until I was in my mid teens, and then it was glaringly obvious after becoming a little more educated in Biblical stories.
As I see it, many fantasy novels are a "good-versus-evil" plot, with magic or "miracles" involved. I guess it wouldn't be hard for some to leap to a conclusion that the author's intention is allegorical. Regardless, even if it IS the author's intentions, it's possible to still make the work escapist and enjoyable w/o the soapbox.
My two cents. :D
Kaellyn February 6th, 2005, 06:46 PM I am a Christian and I love reading fantasy. I do not see allegory in most of what I read, but there are a few works in which I do. If people want to see allegory in what they read that is up to them. As far as the Narnia books being allegorical I really think they are especially in parts of The Lion, Witch, and the Wardrobe and The Last Battle. This should not deter you from reading the books though. They are very good and pretty quick and easy to read. As far as seeing allegory in everything, it may be because many authors write stories that are in some way influenced by religion, the Bible, and other ancient religious texts, myths, and ideas. Most fantasy has a good triumphs over evil plot, and this is a major theme of Christianity. If people want to see everything that has that kind of plot as allegory, let them. It does not matter to me what other people think about what they read.
Zsinj February 6th, 2005, 08:46 PM Starson, my sister is sixteen, and I asked her a bit more about the Narnia Series this afternoon, and she said there wasn't anything allegorical in it that she saw, she said that it only had a few thrown-in biblical themes, like in Star Wars Episode I when Anakin Skywalker was the product of a virgin birth. Star Wars in itself isn't allegorical, but it does have some biblical/ Judeo-Christian Mythology themes thron in their. I do know of some people that view Star Wars as a Christian allegory, though.
Kaellyn, I apologize, I don't believe I really stated my reasons clearly of why I don't like the Narnia Series. Yes, the fact that it is an allegory is indeed one of them, but the main reason is that, when I was five, up until the time I was fifteen, I was placed in a very hard-nosed fundamentalist Christian school. My parents and I didn't realize how strict they were until my latter years there and because of that they pulled me out, but I was so busy with my schoolwork and my friends there that I didn't really give a crap what the teachers/pastor said. But one thing that did annoy me is the fact that they force fed their students the belief that Narnia is the only "pure" fantasy series out there, and every other fantasy series is of the devil. I and my parents were pretty pissed about this fact. And I guess that's what soured me against Lewis in the first place. If I hadn't have gone to that school and been force-fed that crap, maybe I would think different about Narnia. :(
Miriamele February 6th, 2005, 09:01 PM I studied the Narnia series in university and yes, Lewis fully intended them to be allegorical. He figured it would be a more interesting way to teach the fundamentals of Christianity to children than the dry and dull lessons he used to get as a child himself in Sunday school. Although in some books (such as The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe) the allegory is obvious, in others it is more subtle. An adult Christian however should be able to pick up on it.
That said, the stories are quite good on their own and needn't be read as allegory at all. As I said, most of the allegory is subtle. Nothing is crammed down the reader's throat. If you want to read the books merely as entertainment, I don't see why you can't. They're a lot of fun and very imaginative.
Don't let the narrow-mindedness of your early schoolteachers turn you off from this series. Fundamentalists might like the series, but so do plenty of non-Christians! :)
Kaellyn February 6th, 2005, 09:26 PM No apology necessary Zsinj, but I do think the Narnia books are definately worth reading. They are very wonderful stories in my opinion, and if you can read them just as you would as any other fantasy story you will probably enjoy them. But also I can sort of understand where you are coming from. When I grew up I was only allowed to listen to certain styles of music, and now that I can choose for myself I hardly ever listen to those styles. Not really because I do not like them, but because I was forced to like them as a child. I'll stop now since I am rambling off topic.
Grawgos February 7th, 2005, 03:24 AM NOt to be off topic, but it doesn't surprise me that C.S. Lewis has christian themes in the fiction books. I'm a manager at a Books-A-Million and we have two sections in the store called Christian Living and Inspiration and C.S. Lewis has many books in these section. So what Miriamele has informed us of makes sense. Do a search online and you will see the many non fiction christian books C.S. has written.
Chlestron February 7th, 2005, 10:52 AM I can think of two reasons why Christians would look for allegorical stuff in fantasy literature and they are very different depending on your outlook in life.
#1) They are constantly thinking, if on a subconscious level, about the stories in the bible and trying to make some sort of connection that is meaningful for them so that they would understand it better and thus gain more enlightenment out of it.
#2) They are constantly thinking, if on a subconscious level, about the stories in the bible and trying to make some sort of connection that is meaningful to them because though they WANT to believe by tradition, upbringing, or something else, but some doubt is stopping them from it. In this case, they might be looking at other literature to either help rationalize and internalize the bible or to debunk and remove those lingering doubts.
I personally do #2. As well, I agree that many stories are probably allergorical because even if you're not a believer, it's hard NOT to get away from some of the stories that are presented in the bible. Especially if you're a fantasy or sci-fi author because you are creating a world that has to make sense in some way. You are introducing powerful beings (maybe even gods and demons). The bible has a creation myth (or two or three) and is littered with heroes however virtuous or flawed, and villains with the same traits.
DrBloodmoney1 February 7th, 2005, 01:07 PM I have loved the Chronicles of Narnia since I was a child. I've reread them several times. They are certainly allegorical, as C.S. Lewis intended them to be.
That fact alone should never push anyone from the books. The story is so captivating that a heathen atheist, like myself, can enjoy them immensely.
George February 7th, 2005, 02:29 PM There are themes in literature that were definitely inspired by Christian values, which would explain why Christians might feel a sense of recognition. Examples of these can range from simple things like altruism, self-sacrifice, love and forgiveness, to complex subjects like the deception of appearances (glory hidden behind humility), the reality of the unseen, order and balance in the universe (including numerology, typology and apocalyptic expectations) and the manifestation of binary opposed morality(nobility and chivalry are beautiful while evil and greed are ugly).
Christian themes can be seen in Lord of the Rings, however entire stories with parallels to Christianity (biblical stories and history) can be found in fantasy authors like David Gemmell, and in big sci-fi names like Chris Carter in his X-files and Harsh Realsm series. In contrast to Christian themes, the other great influence in the arts is secular humanism, as seen in the Star Trek series. This bunch of themes includes the use of religion to persecute and disciminate, to hinder progress and to give easy answers to life's problems.
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