Is love a fallacy?
 

I feel awful. Since I broke up with my boyfriend it's been nothing but confusion. I thought it was the right thing to do but it feels so wrong. I visited him today to make sure he was ok, and oh god... he's beautiful. He has such a good heart. All I could do was sit there and stare amazed at every perfect feature he's graced with. And no, most people don't find him attractive... but to me he's an angel.

And to see him look at me that way. To see somebody look at with with so much "love" in their eyes... when they're ready to die for you in a heartbeat... then to tell them it's over. A cold blooded murderer couldn't be so cruel as I! What have I done?

I could vomit. But to what purpose? Over what? What is this goddamn ultimate power that's crushing me? Love? How could it be love when love clearly failed us! You can be faithful to your heart but will it be faithful to you?

It's the classic question... does love really exist?

Whoa, whoa, whoa....

I've been through SEVERAL long-term-relationship-breakups, and trust me, they're NEVER easy, and they never get easier. Don't let yourself be fooled into thinking he's perfect after all, just cause you broke up. Trust me, you'll feel that way for a while.. for me it's usually a feeling that lasts SEVERAL MONTHS, if not more! It's just part of breaking up. It's REALLY hard to get used to the fact that someone is no longer a part of your life, when you've talked to them/seen them almost every day for months or years.

That's just the way it is.... and there aren't any real answers. You just have to eventually get over it and move on.

I know I might sound a bit harsh... but that's honestly the way I feel after going through the same thing you are, several times...

Hope you feel better soon. :)

PS. Be very careful! It's the EASIEST thing in the WORLD to end up "intimate" with an Ex, but it's almost always a BAD decision.

Shan, I'm very glad you pmed me to reply to this message. Let me assure you, love is not a fallacy. I am so sorry you broke up with your boyfriend that is so sad. But be assured that somewhere out there, there is some one destined for you, my friend. It is just a matter of time until you find him. The quest for love may be long, and a bit hard but as long as you stay positive and keep pursuing yuour goal, believe me, it will come to you! Don't let these dark demons of hurt pull you down into the darkest of abyssess, fight them with all your might, and tell yourself that you will make it to your goal! Shan, I feel for you from the very bottom of my heart, I'm going through a struggle similar to yours, my problem is that I've never had a girlfriend and I'm still looking for one, and I'm lonely and a bit sad to tell you the truth, but I'm perservering no matter what. I had a serious blow three months ago when I fell victim to a practical joke involving meeting a girl, and let me tell you, it hurt like hell! I felt like my heart was thrown into the deepest, darkest abyss! So I know somewhat what you are going through. But Shan, believe me when I say, and I mean this with all my heart, I'm not just spouting out bravado, that if I had a girlfriend, I would want her to be just like you, because you are the sweetest, most beautiful girl I've ever had the pleasure of talking to. :) Just hold on, my friend, don't give up! And I'm always here in case you want to talk. :)

Love is the force that binds the universe together. It is so real it hurts.
We all of us spend our lives trying to find that perfect someone who will understand all our questions, identify totally with our thoughts and feelings, have the panacea for all our hurts and wounds.
I have been more fortunate than most.....I have been lucky in love, and found a man who worships the ground upon which I tread, and is the best man I know. But as a teacher, I see how painful others' experiences are, and I hurt for them.

I have no answers to such heart-rending questions. I only know that without love we shrivel and die.
I am not talking about sex......I am talking about that feeling of wanting the other person's good above our own, of wanting to give all we have and are to that person. Such love exists, I promise you.

Yes.

Now cheer up!

:)

Of course love exists! I believe that it's the most powerful force, even more powerful than hate.

But it isn't like we see in the movies. It's never simple or easy--not if it's real. Real love takes a lot of work and can sometimes cause a lot of pain, because it touches the deepest parts of your soul. I know this because the man I love and married has caused me more pain than anyone I've ever known! And yet it's worth it...

The funny thing with love is that you really can't force it. If you look for it too hard you won't find it. You have to just wait for it to come to you. And when it does, it will hit you with incredible force and you'll just know it's real.

Shan, there may still be a good deal of love between you and your ex-boyfriend. But that doesn't mean that you should get back together. Warm feelings, sexual attraction--these things alone aren't enough to forge a lifelong bond. If you broke up with him then you must have had reasons to do it. Don't forget those reasons. There really are other fish in the sea, and if you loved once you will love again, trust me. You should just be friends, and remember the time you were lovers as a nice memory. There's nothing to be sad about, because there is someone even better for you out there!

I agree with EA's advice. I have fallen into the trap of renewing intimacy with someone I've broken up with, and it just makes things a thousand times more complicated and difficult! Don't do it.

Well that's my advice. In the end you will follow your heart, I'm sure...but just wait for a while before you make any decisions. Break-up time is a VERY emotional time and not the best time for rational decision making.

I know you're a strong woman and you'll be fine. Chin up! :)

In case you're wondering who voted "HELL, NO!", that was me, and I apologize right away, because I do not think anyone who believes in love is a bloody fool. It's just that I think love is love is love is love. What we call "love between a man and a woman" is something a lot more complicated, and even love's in there somewhere. Other components are sex, economic security (kind of declining in importance), the child-package...

I love most of my family. I loved my cat. I'm pretty sure, if I'd ever had a girlfriend (you see where I'm coming from? ;) ), I'd have loved her, too, or more likely, I'd still love her. But you see, it's so easy to forget that the guy'n'gal need to get along. Breaking up doesn't mean you're not allowed to still love your ex. Still loving your ex doesn't mean breaking up wasn't a good idea. And, finally, finding a new boyfriend doesn't mean you have to stop loving your ex. Just make sure that you love your new one, too.

Love is the one thing in the universe that can make you feel on top of the world one minute *cue Carpenters song*, and lower than you’ve ever been the next minute.

It can mess you up big time, more because of the expectations we tend to place on relationships of this nature. e.g. if a friend doesn’t call us for a week or two, it’s no big deal, but if we don’t hear from a lover for a week, we go crazy.
I’ve been through Hell and high water in the past with relationships and If you’d asked me 3 years ago if I believed in true love I’d have said, “I’m agnostic”, i.e. believe it when I see it.
But three years ago, at the ripe old age of 30 I got involved with someone whom I’d known for a while and I’ve never looked back or doubted it ever again.
Relationships of an intimate nature are always hard, because no matter how well you think you know someone, there is almost always a side of them you will hardly ever see.
As Chris Rock said; “When you meet someone, you’re not meeting them. You’re meeting their representative.”
People aren’t always who their appear to be at first as we’re all generally on our best behaviour trying to impress our girl/guy etc. After what’s affectionately known as “the honeymoon period” has passed we may discover that the person we thought we loved doesn’t even exist!

We all feel for you Shan, but you’re smart, spirited and a very attractive girl. That combination can scare some guys off, whereas others would love you forever for it.
You’ve got all the time in the world, so don’t compromise yourself ever for someone who doesn’t appreciate you for who you are.

All the best, Shan.

For three paragraphs, you answered your own question Shan... Of course love exists... In all its wonderful, bitter, glorious, painful splendour... It's what fuels our spirits and for me and thousands more, the music. Just look at the explosion that is your post... That is what love can do, it can be beautiful and it can be horrific, or at least products of love can be.

There are no rules... These are the only four words you will need. Because quite simply, your head, friends, family, ambulance crews and police (alright alright, I am being a drama king) may tell you what you should do, but your heart will totally ignore the advice. Especially during break-up time.

I had a very volatile relationship until a few months ago, filled with violence and pain (mostly directed at me I hasten to add). Anyway, the times we were apart were infinitely more painful than any punch, kick, bite, scratch or even the odd headbutt... And when we fell back together, it felt like being home and that we could put the world to rights... Until the next time.

Loving someone and yet knowing you have to move on is one of the most painful things I have experienced... Seeing the person you love with someone else is pretty bad too. Knowing that the person you love is ill and that you can't help and that unless you break away you will get pulled down too... Is painful.

It takes time, how often will you hear that? A lot, but it is true.

Now I am with someone who is beautiful inside and out, I watch her as she talks and I am enraptured, not because of the topic, but because she is so passionate about it. I'm addicted to her lips, passion starts with love... Explodes... And ends again with love. Making this person smile and laugh is what drives me, holding this person, waking up in the middle of the night and seeing her asleep on her pillow are the treasures hidden amongst the other moments. To look across the room and think 'you are so beautiful', to watch her at work and think 'you are so clever' to see her with her friends laughing and think 'you are so cool' to stumble home giggling in each others arms and to fall asleep after making love and think 'you are mine and I am yours'...

Nah, I don't think love exists. ;)

Re: Is love a fallacy?
 

Once you love someone like this, that love will forever be there. Doesn't mean you have to be with this person, but true love is something that doesn't wash away with time.


12

I'm sorry Shan. I don't really have anything to add, as I think everything relevant has been said, but I hope the pain lessens as time passes. Love is not a fallacy, as twelve pointed out, it wouldn't be love if it wasn't devastating if or when it ended.

I know exactly how you feel. :( From reading these posts though, I do have some hope. So there is that.

Shan, if there is such thing as love, no one deserves it more in my book, so you'll find him, and of that, I have no doubt. :)

Wow, thanks Agent. There is definitely a lot of good advice there. And I am going to trust you completely. I know you wouldn't lead me astray.

But even if that feeling is standard to long term break up.... still... WHAT OF LOVE?

I know what you mean about being intimate... oh the temptation to kiss! It's so strange when you were so close to somebody and suddenly your torn apart. There were several times I leaned in to kiss him and grimaced. I had completely forgotten it was no longer allowed. God... there could be no worse feeling.

How could such sad kind words send such angry daggers into my heart?

You know it is quoted by those wise that the words of a true friend will cut like a knife when the words of a fool are a kiss on the cheek. I thank you for your honesty.

I'm glad you believe in love. Even if I'm having trouble coming to grips with it, I'll at least hold onto hope. Hope never abandons it's keeper. Not like love does...

Thanks again for all the compliments. I really don't believe I deserve them. Heh, especially from you when I STILL have yet to answer an email of yours.

Also, thank you for the encouragement.

Again Elda, I am so glad that a wise friend of mine has put faith in love. That serves to strengthen my hopes, certainly.

Your words are very kind. I appreciate that. I'm happy that's you've found love.

Thanks Cal. I can always count on you to be blunt. I appreciate that. :)

Wow! Thanks for that responce Miri! I can tell you really put some serious thought and effort into it. I appreciate that.

I take it you are a devoted believer in love?

This is a good thing I suppose, but I'm still not completely convinced. I want to believe, but at this time I can do little more then hope.

I know everything you are saying is true but unfortunately it doesn't make it any easier to know these gut wrenching emotions will subside. In a way, I don't want them to. I'd rather continue the love then admit that it fell apart into nothing. How then can I put full faith in the next man? If there is love,it would seem that it's weak and dependant on the current set of circumstances. Far too often do people fall madly in love and then loose the feeling. Oh, how horible that is. How frightfully tainted and twisted for this world, that we should love completely, and then be completely without any longing. I'm affraid to move on. If I do I'll have to admit too many things.

Lol... no offense but all that love talk sounds like the wisdom of the hippies. And heh, that's a good things, really. :)

I understand where you are coming and what you mean. But sometimes that love just doesn't last.

Okay, about love:

Yes, I believe in it.

There was a time, shortly after leaving a 2 year relationship, where I got really bitter and decided that love was basically just a chemical illusion, etc. etc.

Today, while I still think it's mostly chemical, that doesn't mean it's not real. The emotion of love, that you can feel for something or someone, is definitely a real emotion, and one of our most powerful ones. The thing is, there are SO many different kinds of love that it's hard to classify. I fall in love almost daily, with all kinds of different people, for different reasons. Then there's the love I definitely feel for friends and family... that's real, no doubt. And then there's the 4, 5, or 6 times I've been sure that I was in love with a girl... and now, in hindsight, I still think I WAS in love, each and every time.

I guess what it comes down to is that there are degrees of love, some seem perfect but are only puppy love or crushes, some seem less intense or passionate but may be more solid and more dependable in the long run.

If I haven't given any definite answers, it's cause I don't want to pretend to know the truth, when I still don't... I'm still learning, fumbling along, like the rest of us! :)

But don't worry Shan, as many have said, you're gorgeous and intelligent which is a priceless combination. You'll be fine.

That said, you're still allowed to wallow in depression for awhile, it's only natural.

Wow Kahn. That post was, honest, straight forward, to the point and loaded with useful wisdom. Truely, THANK YOU! I really appreciate it.

Your point about "the person we thought we loved..." really hit home. That's what happened with my Michael Collins Jr. He just wasn't who I thought I was. Our romance was seasoned with his high quality lies, and oscar worthy performances. Only when I broke through that shell and found the real man, he really wasn't all that bad.

God, who am I to judge him? I have made so many bad choices in my life. I have dwelled in the shadows and there is blood on my hands. Who am I to say measure his worth? He lovesme. He loves me without condition... if love truely exist then would it not be perfect. Like his feelings? Would I not be able to look past his flaws?

So he's a poor, immature, lying, slobish bastard but good god he loves me. He's an ingenious fool of a man who is madly in love with me and I tore his heart right form his chest. I swore I'd always be thre, and for the first time in my life I broke and oath.

What claim have I, the oathbreaker to sanctity?! I don't derserve forgiveness not for this... none of it equals out. It's all wrong.

Is love a tool of the devil, masterfully designed to tear the world apart? Nay... it's the passion of man, made large by legend.

I really appreciate your kind words... and I'm sure things will be okay with time. It's always okay. Life throws you a twist, and you realise everything blows, but your mind dismisses it and you enter in a fresh state, unspoilt by the truths you must learn again, before the sun can set and rise again.

I need only look into my wife's eyes, (and hers into mine) to know that love is real and eternal. That's easy...

Finding the right person to love, and love you back, is quite often the hard part, but not impossible

Shan, your soul mate is out there...trust me. :)

Juzz, my most beloved of friends! How bittersweet to receive your comforts.

I'm glad that you are happy now. Happy... such a strange word when you really observe it. What's the point though? It's just a chemical reaction... like "love"... Good god, I need sleep.

I'm sorry but the more kind and honest advice I receive the more I feel like a useless mortal made of useless flesh. And that the world is useless.

One of my books is titled "Of Blood and Dust" and I swear that's all mankind is. One day blood and the next dust.

It use to feel so good to be alive but now "alive" is foreign to. I'm sorry Juzz, for such a horrid responce. But it's getting hard to type.

I am a strong woman, and strong enough to admit that everything I believe was a fallacy.

Thanks MK. You have given me a great gift... a smile! :)

Love, hmm. I don’t believe in love at first sight, but I believe it exists. Love perhaps it’s a virus, striking the unwary and unsuspecting. Putting you off your food and even making it difficult to concentrate. I can’t remember who said it but you have to kiss a lot of frogs to find your prince. Personally I’ve always gone the friendship route first, then building it up from there. But what do I know, 31 and still single!

Shan from what I’ve seen and read on the boards you seem like a beautiful person with a lot to offer. Strong, witty, incredibly attractive (despite the green tint), don’t dwell on the past, that road leads to self destruction. Normally the single kind of life and wearing of gloves with the fingers cut off. A persons worth can also be measured by the friends they have, look at the response here on the board. Need I say more?

Ah, there... was that a smile? :D

Hippie? :eek: ;) I can live with that.

That love doesn't last? Well, then it doesn't. :) Wait a minute, what love...

Love is love. Pain is pain. Guilt is superfluous. Take care...

Love is being hit round the head by a piece of two by four. It can come out of nowhere at anytime and change your life for good or bad.

Got to the point in life where I realise there are so many versions of and ways of expressing it, that I am never going to understand it or the affect it has on folks, just welcome it when it arrives and fit it into my life somehow.

In answer to the question; No love is not a fallacy, it is the glue that stops us falling apart. Life without it is not worth living.....

John: Do you believe in Flu?

Mark: Of course!!!

John: I don't.

Mark: Um... What do you mean?

John: I don't believe in Flu.

Mark: But it exists, proof is all around us.

John: Nope, I don't believe in it.

Mark: Well, it doesn't really matter if you believe in it or not, belief won't stop it grabbing hold of you... When your nose runs and your bones ache, will you believe in Flu then?

John: Nah, those are just symptoms, you can't collectively call it the flu, that just provides people with comfort... You can't cure it but if you give it a name it's makes us stupid humans feel better about feeling like sh*t.

Mark: That's a pretty cynical view my friend... I would rather take the comfort and give it a name and know there is nothing I can do about catching or losing it... What about love, do you believe in love?

John: Hell yea!!! What a stupid question.

Lol... thanks Juzz for that diplomatice reminder... I get ya. :)

hmmmm.........."love"................
what is love? - it is a feeling, an illusion, a dream, a nightmare, a paradise, a hell, a figment of our imaginations, and what is found underneath the foundation-stone of our world.....

love has only ever brought me pain.....up until now.....
for four long years of my relatively short life, i was in "love" with a man nineteen years my senior..........it was not an infatuation, it was not my imagination...........but it was unrequited.....it changed me into someone completely different....and i shrank from that image......to me "love" was the epitomy of weakness and lack of self-control..............i hated myself for loving him........for feeling something i could not help.....he knew this and he cared about me......but he didn't love me.........i'm sure of that now...though i wasn't then......i couldn't understand why one person, in this massive world, could have such an effect on me.......there were no answers..........
i haven't seen this guy now for over seven months...........and that hurts..........he has wounded me without knowing it......it would hurt him too much if he were to know......
this man has, effectively made me what i am today.........with his gentleness and understanding i grew to like him........with his intimacy and kindness i grew to love him........and that love endured.......and that love shaped my character......
love builds us up as people.............and then in the same second breaks down all our defences.........all the walls we build up for our protection...........all the layers we put on each day, to hide our real selves.....

less than a week ago i started going out with a guy my age.....he is good and kind and understanding..........and he loves me more than i deserve.......

i had resigned myself to the fact that i was not made to be the object of someones affections........and that my job on this earth would be simply to love those who needed love, without return...

i still cling somewhat to this..........i make an effort to show love to those who are unloved.... but my boyfriend has shown me that love can make me happy, can protect me, can make the pain bearable...............and a lover can provide me with a shoulder to lean on when i need it most....

i still love the older guy..............that love, i believe, will never die.............no true love ever does......................i cannot forget him..........and i still bear the hurt of my love for him.......

"grief is the price we pay for love" - Queen Elizabeth II, on the 11th September.................

very apt, methinks.....

the pain that is felt because of love for another, shows how big a capacity for love each of us has............

with all good wishes for the future, shan.
Ickle me........
xxxxxxxxx

If I showed that to your sister, she'd punch you on the nose :p

Take it this is the subject of the back-of-the-van texting :D

Sounds cool.... :)

One other thing, which I forgot to mention:

Shan, you're young! Really young! At your age, do you really WANT to already be locked into a relationship that will last the rest of your life?

It's hard, I know. Since I was 17 I've had a few relationships that I thought might last forever... but the thing is, I don't really want to get married until I'm at least 30... so it's a really tough case of on the one hand wanting to find love, on the other hand wanting to EVENTUALLY find love at the right age...

Anyway, don't worry, you've got lots of time! ;)

Well, I hardly consider a relationship something that locks.

What I think Evil means is that you have all your life ahead of you, but once your in long term relationship, you have obligations to your partner. It's kind of an unwritten rule that you are there for them when they need you, and always make time to support and help them no matter how you, yourself may be feeling.
For relationships to work they need to have a combination of unselfish commitment and mutual respect. It's not all champagne, roses and candle-lit dinners.
Relationships go sour foir many reasons but, nothing that is worth anything comes easy. You have to work at it.
A relationship is one of the hardest tests of a person's character.

One of the things life and love has taught me is, if you can't be comfortable in your own company, you'll never be comfortable in anyone else's either.