Sheri S. Tepper's Grass
 

It reads like an amalgamation of Conan Doyle’s Hound of the Baskervilles and a manipulative propagandist’s pamphlet against fox hunting, yet I love it nonetheless.

Tepper’s world-building is right up there with Herbert’s (Dune) and Aldiss’s (Helliconia and Hothouse). Those endless, dreamlike vistas of wind-caressed, variegated grasslands sucker me in every time. Yes the religious meanderings are somewhat jarring, but I challenge anyone to withhold their eye teeth for a habitat on such a paradise.

I find it to be my least favourite of her books because of the long meandering descriptions. Plus there is a hell of a lot more science in it than I am used to. I think my favourites were The Gate to Womens Country and The Family Tree (I defy anyone to think of a better twist in a novel than the Family Tree)....I don't know that she gets the recognition that she deserves as a writer which is a real shame.

I read it a long time ago and though it was very good. In fact i got the masterworks edition for xmas :D

I remember it being part of a loose trilogy (or at least same universe) with Raising the Stones and Sideshow. Raising the stones was also good, but i didn't get into sideshow.

i liked Tepper's older stuff a lot. She used to keep the didacticism (sp?) under controll more.
The last 2 novels of hers (Fresco and the Visitor i think) i didn't like, she seems to have gotten the idea that raping men is ok :(
Gate to women's country may not have been completly man-friendly, but at least it didn't seem so one-sided.

I haven't read The Visitor but I don't remember reading that in the Fresco Yobmod...That is terrible. Are you sure?

And I don't think that The Gate to Women's Country was unfriendly to men. It looked unkindly on aggressive, warrior like, patriarchal groups of society. There was a whole group of men there who did quite well over all! The Gate to Women's Country is a great feminist text imo.

What do you reckon to The Family Tree? I think she does best concentrating on the environment personally, Singer From the Sea is another environmental book that I really enjoyed also.

I've never seen Family Tree, i don't think it's even on my reading list for some reason.


Spoilers:




Singer from the Sea had some good ideas, but maybe too many for one book? Felt disjointed to me. I wonder how people would take to a book in which the females of the species were given a restricted diet that reduced there intelligence and shortened their life-span Edit: Whoops, i was thinking of awakeners.

and i really liked gate to womens country, it was very well plotted and well balanced. but didn't the twist to the story involve eugenics to eradicate any masculine characteristics that the women didn't like? Eugenics is rarely considered a good thing for the people its being forced upon.

In the Fresco, don't wasp-like aliens rape a load of men and get them pregnant. And the birth involved the babies eating their way out? And the men were prevented from comitting suicide?
But according to Tepper (in this book at least - not neccesarily her personal view) it's ok to rape men if they are anti-abortion.

I don't agree with anti-abortionist's, but i accept that they want to prevent abortion because they think it's wrong, not too punish women - i hardly think they deserve what they got in that book (and from the 'good' aleins!!).


But even tho i find her politics (as represented by her books) a bit extremist, i still count her as one of my top authors. Have you read beauty? A fantasy/SF cross, and brilliant, i think that's my fav Tepper book, closely followed by the Mavin-manyshaped trilogy.

Hmmm, my posts don't paint a very enticing picture a Sherri Tepper's work, so i'd like to mention that she is a very good story-teller and writer.

And the feminism isn't that strong, so unless you're the sort of man who feels like exploding when he hears that women are better drivers, then there should be no problem. :D

Elsewhere I ranked Tepper as my third best woman writer ever. See no reason to change my opinion. I liked Grass a lot, as much as Gate. I've never been able to get my hands on Mavin-many shaped but I do have The True Game and enjoyed that as well. The last book I bought, Companions, has a very origin-of-species plot to it and I rate that as one of her best.
She is an unabashed feminist writer. There's room for such in the world if they carry it off as well as she does. Just as there's room for unabashed adventure geeks like Resnick and the hard science purists like Clement. All it takes is superior writing skills.

I was very impressed with Grass. It makes a pleasant change to have such a well written female character.
Not quite so pleasant reading if you’re a man though- we don’t come out of it at all well.
I thought the planet was vividly described too, believably alien. Of course the planet and its inhabitants were no match for Majorie Westriding, our heroine.
After reading the claptrap served up by Elizabeth Moon in The Serrano Legacy and her female characters ( she should be writing for Mills and Boon) Grass came as breath of fresh air and an unexpected one too because I knew nothing about Tepper and only picked up a second hand copy by chance.

It's funny about Tepper: there doesn't often seem to be agreement upon which is/are her best work. And it may be that at different points in our lives, with different priorities, we are differentially receptive to her messages. I've only read a couple by her, but have bought several (surprised? ;) ). Mainly the reason I don't ever pick one up to read is because there isn't a commonly-held "must-read", and because there are so many fascinating hot new books/authors out there (which seems to grab my attention away from hers).

If there is a common Tepper "must-read" please speak now before I start another hot new something. (Hmm that sounded a bit misleading ::sigh:: if only...).

I never realized this before. Tepper's noms de plumes, from Internet Speculative Fiction Database:

[as Sheri S. Eberhart] Sheri S. Tepper
[as E. E. Horlak] Sheri S. Tepper
[as B. J. Oliphant] Sheri S. Tepper
[as A. J. Orde] Sheri S. Tepper

I think the consensus would have to be Gate to Women's Country since that was the award winner.
I got a kick out of Gibbon's Decline and Fall but I recongized the geography where it takes place but I liked the story line as well. And as I said earlier, Companions is as good as she gets and that's very good.

Gate to Women's Country is not a feminist text, it is a tragedy. The opening scene is a Greek/Roman funeral. Tepper takes the women who were mostly victims when the world was destroyed, places them in power, and with all the best intentions in the world they (the women in power) behave in the exact same way as the men did. They lie, manipulate, kill, separate people and engage in genetic engineering on the the human race -- for all the right reasons of course.

But it is actions, not intentions that count. And even those who know what they are doing is wrong, are unable to change because the beliefs they hold are what defines them. If they changed their beliefs they would have to repudate who they are, and were they came from, and all those women who died and suffered before them. That is why the Trojan war and its aftermath are part of the story. Cassandra's curse was not that nobody believed her about Troy falling and everybody dying, it was that it didn't matter, they couldn't change their beliefs or their behaviors without destroying who they were, and they chose to die (they chose for the whole city) rather than change.

Gate to Women's Country is the best of the Tepper books I have read so far. I have Grass but haven't read it yet.

You missed the point. It doesn't matter whether male anti-abortionists really believe that abortion is wrong, and aren't trying to punish women. That is how it comes out when they get involved. Because they don't have a womb, and can't give birth, they don't have a right to any opinion on the matter. It would be like a woman deciding that erectile dysfunction was the judgement of god, and so it should never be cured. Since some men feel that they can not only have an opinion but enforce it on women - with no exceptions even for the life of the mother, Tepper provides them with the opportunity to give birth. If you are going to talk the talk then you have to walk the walk. :D

That would be waddle the waddle. :rolleyes:

I'm glad to hear FicusFan's perspective, another thoughtful alternative to the overused and dismissive "strident" that crops up in so many (not this) discussions of Tepper. My Tepper-jones today is also fueled by the fact that her work inspires such discussion among us here - not just the inevitable response to emotionally-charged subject matter, but that the discussion is a response in the context of the work that birthed it says a lot for the writer.

I'm so envious of you Ficus, have fun in Boskone!

I agree that that may have been the intention, but i simply felt the cumuppence the men got was out of proportion to their 'crimes'. (Men preventing women having abortions was wrong, but aliens doing the same to men was fine? 2 wrongs don't make a right) - it jarred me out of the storey. but that's just me :)

Did Gate to womens country win awards? Accoridng to Locus's index of awards, the only winner Tepper has is Beauty that topped the Locus poll.

I would go for Beauty or Grass. Both very good, and both in print (in the SF / fantasy masterworks ranges).

How could I have forgotten Beauty? What a marvellous book. Intensityxxx, I would recommend Beauty if you like fantasy and probably Grass if you like Sci Fi. I now have to put Gate To Women's country on my re read list. I don't remember any genetic engineering at all....but I did read it over a decade ago so please forgive me Ficus Fan!

Re male pregnancy. Has the concept of poetic justice has gone out of style? As I recall, the only males subjected to the treatment were those who were convinced they knew what was best for women.

As far as Sherri S. Tepper goes I've read Grass and Beauty. Grass took quite a while to get into (almost half the novel from memory) though the second half well and truely redeemed it. Beauty on the other hand, I enjoyed most of the way through and was quite a significant Fantasy novel. She's not the absolute greatest writer I've ever read but those two novels, so far, have made her an author worth checking out in my books.

I look forward to starting Beauty today or tomorrow. :)

I'm about a quarter of the way through Grass, which corresponds to about 150 pages in four days - for me that's some fast reading! It seems to be shaping up to be one of the best SF books I've ever read :)

I am a huge Tepper fan sometimes, yet sometimes I want to scream in frustration. Thus far my favorite has been The Awakeners (also published in two volumes as North Shore and South Shore). I also really liked Grass and the one about the comet that hit Earth (can't recall the name).

I am in the mood for another Tepper-esque book, but not one of her newer ones that go nuts in the last 3rd with political ramblings. Can anyone recommend another of her early books I might enjoy or else a book by someone else that is sci-fi in flavor, probably post-apocolypitic, with at least one or two strong female characters. I'm thinking along the lines of Katherine Kerr's Snare or even Margrat Atwood's Oryx and Crake. I'm generally more of a fantasy reader so know very, very little about who's out there in the sci-fi world.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Here's the Tepper's I've already read:
The Awakeners
Grass
Gibbon's Decline and Fall
Shadow's End
Singer from the Sea
The Gate to Women's Country
The Visitor
Beauty
Six Moon Dance

I highly recommend Octavia Butler's Lilith's Brood, also known as the Xenogenesis Trilogy. It's really excellent. Take a look at the reader comments here and on Amazon, which describe it better than the official book description.

Oryx and Crake is narrated by a male character, and Oryx (the female) is a passive and weak character, mostly present as a goad for Crake and Snowman. I thought it was very good, but Oryx is definatly not the focus of the story.

Raising the Stones is another good one from Tepper - it is SF, but quite fantasy-like. And the True Game trilogy is back in print I think, that is a good science-fantasy.

Intensity's Octavia Butler recomendation is a good one, any of her books provide strong female characters - Try Lilith's Brood (Xenogenesis) or Wild Seed (Patterninst) or Parable of the Sower.

Also Maria Doria Russel's Sparrow and Children of God duo have a strong female character, and are excellently written.
Or Geoff Ryman's Air, has strong independant female protagonist, dealing with the imposition of a new technology, and her villages predudices.

Connie Willis' Doomsday Book is excellent and certainly features a potentially apocalyptic scenario.

Thanks for much for the suggestions! I can't wait to get ahold of some of these books.

Yeah, Oryx and Crake was not my favorite book but it was similiar to the typoe of thing I like. Of course there could be (and probably is) a huge discussion about the problems with Margret Atwood and her claims that she wasn't writing sci-fi. I really haven't read much sci-fi at all but even I could tell that her book could have been enriched by her reading more in the field.

I thought it was a great twist - hadn't these men stated publicly time and time again their position? Clearly an intelligent race would have thoroughly researched the matter before pressing their views on others. And it was an emergency. The aliens understood these men hadn't volunteered to be hosts so they did apologize for what they were doing, carefully monitored the men's conditions and removed their children from them before they ate their way out.

Some might feel it would give those men a rather unique perspective.

I read what may have been the last of the True Game books some while back. I got the distinct impression that it was much longer than a trilogy.
What is the very first book in that series?
I don't seem to find any of them in the local bookstores :(

There are 3 trilogies set in the Land of the True Game titles at wiki:

The True Game (first book King's Blood Four)
Chronicles of Mavin Manyshaped
The End of the Game

Each trilogy follows a different character. This is the order they were published, but the Mavin trilogy is set before Peter trilogy (True Game), and the Jinian trilogy (End of the Game) follows directly after the Peter one.

The second two triogies are hard to find, i got them from eBay as 3 omnibi, the ones on amazon marketplace were very expensive.
I would recommend starting with the True Game, and leaving the Mavin trilogy till last.

There are plenty of women who oppose abortion. Do you also think it would be great for them to be raped, tortured and imprisoned until they give birth? or is only fun if it happens to men, which Tepper seems to think? She seemed to completely ignore the female pro-lifers, IMO because she isn't really interested in exploring the issue unless men can be blamed.

I find it scary that people can approve of the 'justice' of raping and torturing people as a punishment for exercising free speech and participating in a democracy. The 'evil' men in Fresco were elected, and presumably were echoing the beliefs of the voters - maybe all the men and women that voted for them also deserve the same vicous treatment.

btw, Did they remove the offspring early? I seem to remember they stopped the men from being completely eaten, but the birth was otherwise natural, including being prevented from using any analgesia (which none of the men had suggested should be inflicted on female rape victims).

What I find interesting is that thousands of books and movies are produced that treat women as stupid, deserving victims, and sex objects, and very few objections are raised. Its just considered part of entertainment. Those who do object are treated like fringe loonies.

But let one book or one movie come along and turn the tables and show men in the same position, or being forced to take responsibility for their actions and people are outraged, and its considered man-hating.

You are missing Tepper's point about men and abortion. Women do have a variety of opinions and they can have an abortion or not. Those who are pro-choice are not forcing abortions on those who don't want them. They leave each women to make her own decision, and to exercise control over her own body. Men are bystanders to the whole event. They don't give birth, they have no right to a broad legal stance unless we go back to the days of slavery when one person could control the body of another. If an individual man wants a say then he should deal with the women, or go to court to hash it out.

The idea of men having a broad legal say is wrong, like women saying that men shouldn't have prostate exams or surgery. The debate between men and women over abortion is an invalid argument at the public level. Personally men and women should make sure their ideas and beliefs match up before there is anything to abort.

There will still be women who object, and want to prevent others, but at least they have the standing to have the argument, and Tepper's issue with them isn't about being clueless regarding pregnancy, birth and motherhood, as it is with the men.

So women can try to prevent others having abortions purely because they have a womb? Even if they have never had children? What if they are infertile - then they should only have as much say as a man? And if the pregnancy is the result of rape, only other rape victims deserve an opinion?

The idea that laws should only be decided by those the law affects directly is undemocratic. Should drug legalisation be decided only by those who take drugs? Should laws against child abuse be scraped because it is not right for those of us without children to have an opinion. Clearly not, because these are issues that affects the whole of society. Abortion is the same, it affects society, and should have legal controls (even if i think those legal controls include women being able to choose an abortion at any time).

According to Tepper, you also shouldn't have an opinion on this Ficus, and neither should I.

I agree Teppers issue is with the men, and not actually with pro-lifers. At no point does she criticise, or even admit the existance of pro-life women.

I'm trying to think of a book in which women are raped and tortured for exercising free speech, in which the author doesn't clearly show it to be a monstrous evil. But i'm drawing a blank, which are you thinking of?
(Although i admit that I seem to be the only person that finds James Bond offensive!)
I also thought the Onkalis treatment of Lilith in Xenogenisis was also evil, but at least Butler allowed for the possibility that they were doing wrong.



On a different issue with Fresco, it was also shown that religious propoganda and lying to the populace is good, as long as it is in the control of women. The repainting of the Fresco was another example of Tepper (in this book) believing that democracy and free speech and education are unimportant.