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  1. #16
    I'm the law... Administrator daigoro's Avatar
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    Kats, Erebus is quite right, it was the comments made by Gabe that was a problem not Bing's.

    I feel there should be room for both positive and negative critique in the forum.

  2. #17
    Guardian of sffworld
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    Actually, my comment about us disagreeing on a lot of things has VERY little to do with this thread. I've read Erebus's posts and we do disagree about many things. Just take a look at the post immediately following Bing's post and I can't say I agree with much Erebus says in just that one post. And that post was addressed to Bing, so I assume that it was in response to Bing's post. Correct me if I'm wrong. But the fact remains that from the posts I've read of Erebus's, we disagree on many, many things. I've never made a big deal about it and I suppose I've never brought it up before because it's really no big deal. After all, what fun would the world be if everyone agreed on everything?

  3. #18
    Keeping The Equilibrium Erebus's Avatar
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    Well, it seems I may have indeed grabbed hold of the wrong end of the stick somewhat with my responses here, and others too perhaps. Yes, Kats and Bing, it is a good thing to give honest opinions, but I for one will draw the line at being unkind, or in Gabe's case, downright rude and vulgar. Also, I do not believe I have the right to offer overly harsh critique to people I don't know, especially without knowing if English is their first language or even how old they may be. Criticism can be constructive without being unnecessarily hurtful, at least in my humble opinion.

    Kats, I can only sincerely apologise if my comments have riled you somehow; that certainly was never my intention! But, as you said, what a boring place it would be if we all had the same ideas - that much is agreed upon at least!

    However, in this instance, and for this topic, I felt that Dalia was being unfairly criticised, and so I said as much, and then I really had to speak out against what Gabe had posted here! I guess it's in my good nature to defend those I believe have been wronged, especially in this case where very derogatory comments were made towards a female member of this forum. Perhaps you were lucky enough not to read them before Dag removed them, Kats? Nevertheless, had the comments been directed towards yourself or any other member, male or female, I would have responded the same way.

    Perhaps old-fashioned chivalry is uncommon to many these days? If that's true, then it's a pity. So, line up here and call me old-fashioned if you must -I'll take it as a compliment every time!

    My sincere and kindest regards,

    Neil Cladingboel

    [This message has been edited by erebus (edited May 29, 2001).]

  4. #19
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    Erebus, I don't believe my post was very mean. I wanted to be honest. Does chivalry require you to lie? The purpose of this forum is for aspiring writers to get feedback on their work. As I mentioned in my post, if I ever decide to write a story, I would like an honest review of it. So long that the complaints are legitimate, I do not mind. Did I overstep the boundaries somewhere? I'm re-reading my post and as far as I can see I only pointed out some errors that I thought if were corrected could improve the writing. If the end goal is improvement, if no one ever tells you you've made a mistake, you'll never improve.

  5. #20
    Guardian of sffworld
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    Erebus, youíre old fashioned! Just kidding You have NOT ďriledĒ me in any way hun. I certainly donít expect an apology from you! We just have different views of things. I can be stubborn and opinionated and Lord knows Iíve never apologized for my attitude. Believe me, there are LOTS of people that I disagree with yet Iíve managed to remain friends with these people.

    No, I didnít not read Gabeís post, but Iím fairly certain Iíve had worse things said about me, to my face and certainly behind my back. (I am a female and like I said I do have strong opinions and I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut, so you can imagine some of the things that have been said about me.) Though chivalry is rare these days, I do appreciate it. Though, as you can imagine, not much someone says will phase me.

    At any rate, I tend to agree with Bing on the critique. Actually, I'd have probably pointed out several more areas that need improvement if I were do give a full critique. However, I seriously doubt the author is still around to read it. But, Bing, please keep in mind that some of the people that submit stories are teenagers and these are their school assignments or first efforts at writing.

    [This message has been edited by KATS (edited May 29, 2001).]

  6. #21
    Keeping The Equilibrium Erebus's Avatar
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    Thanks again, Bing and Kats for your honesty. No, Bing, your comments were not mean, and I never said that they were, BTW! However, Gabe's certainly were, as I said, which is the reason Dag removed them! I only commented that I felt your review, Bing, in my opinion, was somewhat harsher than I would have voiced. Gabe's on the other hand...Well, Kats you missed these, and, as a gentleman, I have to say that I'm glad that you did! Graphic vulgarity referring to anatomy and bodily functions has no place here, nor no doubt in any other writing forum, for that matter, which is the reason I asked Dag for his input.

    That all being said, I believe we've got this all sorted now and I look forward to moving on from this whole sordid (reference to Gabe's comments only) affair!



    [This message has been edited by erebus (edited May 29, 2001).]

  7. #22
    Senior Member Giarc's Avatar
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    I stand by my earlier review. I was not lying when I said I liked it. I also mentioned that the ending needed work and why I felt it needed work.
    It's good that Bing outlined specific problems he felt needed addressing and that's helpful. The tone of his comments did seem unnecessarily harsh to me though. In particular the statement about the story not being readable enough for a proper review was downright rude IMO. Simply because you have stylistic and grammatical differences with the author doesn't mean that the story is too bad to be constructively criticised. Being kind or polite doesn't mean being dishonest. It just means not being rude while mentioning criticisms, and perhaps balancing that out by highlighting something positive if it exists. IMO, there're some positives in this story and I'm just sorry you don't seem to see them. Still, Dalia did ask for what you think of it, and you're entitled to your opinion just like the rest of us. I'm just glad I never saw Gabe's post.

    Erebus, your postings here and elsewhere have certainly earned my respect. Wear that 'old-fashioned' badge with honor.

    [This message has been edited by Giarc (edited August 05, 2001).]

  8. #23
    Keeping The Equilibrium Erebus's Avatar
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    Thank, Giarc,

    The sad thing about all of this in relation to this particular post, is that it seems Dalia has never returned to the Forum!

    Never mind, at least if she ever does, she can rest easy that a few us here found something positive in her story, and defended her honour as well. And you're right, the fact that you missed Gabe's uncalled-for vulgarity is a definite plus, Giarc!

    Cheers,

    Neil

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