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October 24th, 2005, 08:32 AM #16
Well i was dissapointed and content at the end of it all, lots of plus points though especially my new favourite character ...
'Bugger me with a bloody spear,' he said again, and started laughing too.
'You heard the man,' Jaime said to Ilyn Payne. ' Find a nice long spear and shove it up his arse. '
lol, this rivals Shagga and his one liners, hehe!
October 24th, 2005, 02:58 PM #17Originally Posted by Murrin
October 24th, 2005, 06:17 PM #18
- Join Date
- Apr 2000
- NSW, Australia
Wow, didn't pick up on the Hound thing. I might have a re-read of that bit. It could make sense if Elder Brother is this supposed super healer as well.
And yes, I believe we may see "Mountainstein" emerging from the dungeon's at some stage I wondered if it really was his head they sent south, or just someone else with a large skull (such as one of the many dwarf heads bought to Cersei)? It seems strange to spend 3 novels discussing the strength of the Clegane brothers only to have them both die offfscreen. Very undramatic for a soap opera.
I woke up in the middle of the night thinking of a word that may have caused them to cut down Brienne as well: Arya.
October 24th, 2005, 06:48 PM #19
Originally Posted by Murrin
- Join Date
- May 2004
- Canberra, Australia
It's at page 469-470. The Elder Brother says, "The man you seek is dead." [He died by the sword, the same way he lived.]
Then later he says, "The Hound died there, in my arms"
Brienne says, "Sandor Clegane is dead."
The Elder Brother corrects her, "He is at rest."
This leaves us wondering, how did the Elder Brother know Sandor had Arya with him? Did he tell him this while he was dying? Maybe not.
And how did the Elder Brother know that Sandor wished to kill his brother? Has Sandor been healed and confessing his sins to the Elder Brother.
I'm wondering what else I've missed by tearing through the pages so quickly.
October 24th, 2005, 07:07 PM #20
Thing is, when I read it I knew there was something fishy going on, but couldn't work out what - it was the day after I finished, when I went through the scene again in my head, that it occured to me.
Inkswitch: It'd be interesting to see Sandor resurface later, but I think I'd be just as satisfied knowing that he was at peace. If he's truly left all that behind him (and what the Elder Brother says suggests that he has), then his story is essentially finished. If, however, he is still troubled, then there's potential for more of him in later books - it's all up to what Martin thinks of the Hound's death, really.
And of course, his soldiering days are over in any case, if I was right about his identity - the grave digger was half lame.
Eventine: I wondered about the skull as well - something Cersei thought I think? I can't quite remember.
Edit - Ah, it was Qyburn: "I'm sorry that it took so long. Such a large head. It took the beetles many hours to clean the flesh." Not as suspicious as I'd remembered it, but the time Qyburn took over it could be suggestive of some deception.
Last edited by Murrin; October 24th, 2005 at 07:15 PM.
October 24th, 2005, 08:06 PM #21
- Join Date
- Apr 2000
- NSW, Australia
The other thing around the head is that I don't believe there is a specific mention that it is Clegane's, or that the Mountain actually died. Once again, Martin lets us make assumptions that could be false by only showing us certain pieces of information.
October 25th, 2005, 06:33 AM #22Originally Posted by Eventine
October 25th, 2005, 06:56 AM #23
I thought of that too - but then realised that Beric Dondarrion's followers (now Stoneheart's followers) knew Arya was taken by the Hound; and with the Hound gone, they probably know they have no chance of finding her. Brienne doesn't know much they don't about Arya, really, except that she was in Saltpans shortly before the attack (which is not the sort of news Stoneheart would like to hear, I think).
October 25th, 2005, 07:02 AM #24Originally Posted by Murrin
October 25th, 2005, 02:02 PM #25Originally Posted by Eventine
Neither Clegane can be dead... Qyburn (sp?) and his dark magic has created a demon-fighter out of what remained of the Mountain... hence the armour that Cersei was having made... (so heavy no man could be strong enough to bear it's weight) "It's Alive! It's ALIVE! (mwah-haha!!)
Perhaps he will become the replacement for Loras when he falls, but I'll have to keep reading for that one
As for the Hound... it seems very clear to me that he is the gravedigger Brienne sees at that (what is it... some sort of monastary in the bogs or something?) Anyway, his horse is certainly there. Do you really think that horse would go willingly with anybody other than Sandor? Also, the brother telling Brienne about Arya being with Sandor, and of witnessing Sandor's "death" also spoke of his own personal "death" and rebirth (born again has a whole new meaning here). He tells her that Sandor Clegane is "at rest".
I still believe it is Sandor's destiny to kill his brother... NOT to live a pious life burying the dead. His story is far from ended!
October 25th, 2005, 03:49 PM #26
I can't see how Brienne didn't hang. I figured her one word was "Jaime".
The word was probably "Sword". She had to choose between "Sword" and "Noose".
However I don't think what she cries is very relevant. There is no way Martin will have her killed, because why else was Brienne in this story at all if she wasn't going to be important later on. She was one of the (if not *The*) reasons Martin said the 5-year gap had to be scrapped.
It makes little sense from a storytelling point of view to have her die now. If that is the case, we didn't need her story, let alone her POV, let alone her POV with more chapters than anyone else but Cersei.
Any ideas on who the woman in Jaime's "dream" at the end was?
Yes, his mother, Joanna Lannister.
Or the man in the prologue/Sam's last chapter? Just a Faceless Man? Or someone else
It's Jaqen H'gar. As others have pointed out elsewhere, the face that Pate describes in the prologue is precisely the face that Jaqen changes into in Clash of Kings. This one was not easy to catch though.
Will Dance be chronologically after Feast? If so, he's spoiled a bit for me. If it's concurrent, well, that will at least make things interesting.
The early chapters will start at roughly the same time but Dance is expected to span a longer period of time. Characters like Arya and Asha, who were also in AFFC, will continue as POV's in Dance.
In the book we hear of the death of Davos, and I thought he'd carked it and it was an interesting way of cutting out that POV. In the afterword though, he mentions that we'll see more of Davos.
We can still see davos die at White Harbor in his own POV"s in Dance though.
As for Sandor, he is clearly still alive. Why in the world would they keep his mad horse that no one can touch if he wasn't the huge gravedigger with a lame leg? And then we get the cryptic comments from Elder brother, which never state that he is dead, but rather that The Hound is dead?
Sandor is at the Quite Isle, atoning for his many, many sins. As Elder Brother says, when he heard Gregor was killed by poison, the driving force of his life, (killing him) went away. In a few years, when he leaves there, he'll be a changed man, and then he'll learn that...........Gregor is in fact still around, more monstrous and more powerful than before.
October 25th, 2005, 05:58 PM #27
Originally Posted by Mithfânion
- Join Date
- May 2004
- Canberra, Australia
And Mith - you have way too much time to think about this stuff...
October 26th, 2005, 12:07 AM #28
here's an off-beat thought I just had whilst reading Feast- could Syrio/J'quen also take the form of an animal? Such as- oh... I dunno... maybe a tomcat with one ear missing??? Just a thot
October 27th, 2005, 12:26 PM #29
Big Spoilers For Feast!!!!!!!!!!
Stop reading if you have not yet read FEAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!
don't say I didn't warn ya
I've finished Feasting and I have a few thoughts...
1. I don't think Arya is truly blind. I'm pretty sure there was a potion in her warm milk (with a bitter taste at the finish) and that being blind is part of her training. Remember the blind acolyte lighting candles at the beginning? I think that will be Arya next.
2. The Maegi speaks true- Cersei's remaining two children are destined for death... I just wonder if the High Sparrow will be able to whip the truth of her offspring's conception out of her?
3. There sure seems to be alot of PATE's in this book. Anybody have a strong feeling regarding the Pate that Sam feels "uneasy" about at the very end?
4. I can only see Brienne yelling "Sword". Had George said that she yelled a name, perhaps it would be Sansa or Arya... but he wrote that she said a word.
5. I still think that Taena Merryweather is the missing Sandsnake daughter. I do, I do, I do!
6. I wonder if Sam got Gilly knocked up for real this go-round?
7. Sandor is definately the lame monk guy, for reasons I expressed earlier in this thread.
8. Gregor is definately Qyburn's "Frankenmountain" in the black cellars. I'd stake his life on it
9. If the Maegi's prophecy does come to fruition fully, then Cersei will be Queen and keep her life until Dany comes to dethrone her, me thinks.
10. Where is Asha off to? Is she the Kraken prophesied to meet up with Dany?
11. Who turned on Arianne Martell? Could it have been Garin? He is the one who called Darkstar...
12. Where is Ser Raynald Westerling? He seems to have escaped the Red Wedding with a few wounds. And what about the Blackfish? And I think Davos is certainly still kickin'. It would not be difficult to make another body look like his... just cut along the dotted lines
13. As for Margaery's maidenhead, I'm betting she lost it riding horses, which she so loves to do daily... it was discussed that it happened that way more oft than not in earlier chapters. Besides, Renly was gay as sunshine, Joff bit it before he could do the deed, and Tommen is just too darn young for such things. I really do think she's a maid still. She's too smart to do any of the things the Queen suggested.
I could go on, but you'd all probably ban me from the site for rambling!
October 27th, 2005, 01:06 PM #30
Agree with most of your points there, Cat. Interesting idea about Lady Merryweather - there was definately a hidden agenda there, at first I thought she was spying for the Tyrells, but that doesn't seem right by the end. If she's a Sand Snake, then things become quite interesting. I do, however, find it odd that the Merryweathers fled after the Faith took Cersei (though I think it's all left the kingdom in good hands anyway, compared to Cersei's rule).
Davos I also think is alive. The Manderley's were loyal northmen once, and though they may have forged a link with the Freys, remember that one of the brothers was murdered at the Red Wedding, a crime (betrayal of guest-right) that cannot be forgiven (on that point, anyone have ideas on when the Freys' curse will come down on them? I bet it'll be impressive).
I also think you're right on Margaery. Cersei set the whole thing up, one of the only things she managed to do reasonably well (I don't count Osfrey's confession as a fault in that plan - it's more a consequence of her biggest folly in allowing the Faith to bear arms and try sinners).