The Darkness That Comes Before

**Evil Agent** · April 10th, 2006, 03:20 AM

kron: At last I'm in the world everybody praises! I've read a quarter of it already and I have the mixed feelings of the beginner. My first impression: "My God, Kelhus is the main character!!!" I was really disturbed.

But then all the intrigues came and the politics on a masive scale. I like that. And I am still waiting to see how Kelhus will fit in. And for the first time ever I'm not sure I want to see the main character. I mean I want but I want to like him and I doubt I'll be able. He is too egocentric. To the point of selfishness.

Or at least that's what I gathered from the very beginning. I hope this will change in future.

I'm on the second book, and though it's a little slower than I thought it would be, it is a very good read. The characterization continues to be excellent, but I still wouldn't say I 'like' Khellus. Just the thought of him makes me feel uneasy, nervous . . . and I'm sure that's exactly what Bakker intended!

**kron** · April 10th, 2006, 03:40 AM

A new experience then, ha? A main character that challanges your moral grounds.

I would love to interact with such a person. I like the mental duels.

**Asraloth** · April 11th, 2006, 07:00 AM

Keep reading. I just finished TTT and at the end of it all, I think Kellhus has undergone a significant change, at least imo he has (that's not a spoiler, is it? No, i dont think so). And there is a good reason for his "selfishness", apart from the fact that he's Dunyain.

**kater** · April 11th, 2006, 08:02 AM

Just finished reading TDTCB in double-quick time and thoroughly enjoyed it although I found it a bit too similar to Dune in some respects. I've been reading up on the discussions in this forum plus in the Book club and am surprised how many people complain about the names, I don't get it -when you read a fantasy book there are new cities, new races and new worlds yet there is an expectation that naming conventions should remain stagnant and familiar. Plus I don't read out loud so I convert the name to a sound that I can read easily - Cnauir is sire to me for instance

Good stuff Scott, bit of a fish question if I may as I've been avoiding summaries of any kind, does the Prince of Nothing end with TTT?

**Erfael** · April 11th, 2006, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by kater

Good stuff Scott, bit of a fish question if I may as I've been avoiding summaries of any kind, does the Prince of Nothing end with TTT?

The Prince of Nothing Trilogy ends with TTT, but there's hardly a pretty little bow on everything....definite open-endedness there. (I had said more and then erased is so as not to be even in the least little bit spoilery)

Edit: Unsplit an infinitive.

**Mock** · April 11th, 2006, 06:25 PM

Yeah, I heeded the ridiculously good reviews and picked it up on Saturday.

—Err, spoiler?—

On page 182, just finished Cnaiür's (first?) battle scene with the Nansur. Wow, people say it's really hefty stuff. Not that it isn't, but I was hooked from page one. My God, for three years I've been writing, and I've always rather been writing than reading. Bad Mr. Bakker, now I'm addicted!

Fantastic, Mr. Bakker!

**Evil Agent** · April 11th, 2006, 07:06 PM

kater: I've been reading up on the discussions in this forum plus in the Book club and am surprised how many people complain about the names, I don't get it

I'm with you, there. Are there really a lot of complaints regarding the names?? I find them no more difficult than many other fantasy characters. The only thing that confused me for a minute or two was that people's last names tend to come first (ie. Drusas Achamian, or Nersei Proyas, where Drusas and Nersei are their family names). But as soon as I figured that out, I got used to it.

That was interesting to hear that you pronounce Cnaiur as 'sire'! That couldn't be any more different from my version, which sounds more like
K-nye-ur or K-nay-ur (two syllables, hard K sound).

**glaz** · April 11th, 2006, 07:54 PM

i usually go with "see-nor"

i find it more comfortable to use my own pronunciation of names while reading than following the right one. i dont know, maybe just as a matter of taste here...

**Mock** · April 11th, 2006, 08:19 PM

the pronunciation in the back says, "Nay-yur." So I guess I say it like Nay-oor, without the K.

Edit: lol, whenever I something the thread just kills itself

**kron** · April 13th, 2006, 01:55 AM

Ahem, more rambling on the names:

I think Cnauir should be pronounced like the Germans would: Kna-yu-ir. The "i" is useless if one is supposed to say just "yur" where there is a "u" (with the dots above it). Just my simple logic. Not that the old languages gravitate around it

Anyone else see the similarities between the battle of Scyvandi (sp?) with Nansur and the last big battle of the West Roman Empire with the Huns? Regardless the obvious allusion of Nansur being Byzantium.

**Dawnstorm** · April 13th, 2006, 05:59 AM

Originally Posted by kron

Ahem, more rambling on the names:

I think Cnauir should be pronounced like the Germans would: Kna-yu-ir. The "i" is useless if one is supposed to say just "yur" where there is a "u" (with the dots above it). Just my simple logic. Not that the old languages gravitate around it

Hehe, only problem here is that it's "Cnaiür" not "Cnaüir".

Being a native speaker of German I did have trouble thinking "nay-yur"; instead I kept coming up with the "ü" sound; a sound English doesn't have, located halfway between the "i" and the "u".

To approximate the sound:

1. Say "boot".

2. Say "beat".

2. Say "bXXt", with your mouth forming the "oo", but your throat trying to say "beat". That should be somewhat close.

Not that you really wanted to know.

Anyway, the "iü" might be a Scylvendi diphtong, also used in words such as the "Jiünati" step (sp?).

**Mock** · April 13th, 2006, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by kron

Ahem, more rambling on the names:

I think Cnauir should be pronounced like the Germans would: Kna-yu-ir. The "i" is useless if one is supposed to say just "yur" where there is a "u" (with the dots above it). Just my simple logic. Not that the old languages gravitate around it

Anyone else see the similarities between the battle of Scyvandi (sp?) with Nansur and the last big battle of the West Roman Empire with the Huns? Regardless the obvious allusion of Nansur being Byzantium.

I thought it's supposed to be similar to the ancient world? But yeah, Nansur is like Byzantium. But I noticed it was actually like the Crusades (naw, with the Holy War and all, ya think?). Maithanet is sorta like Pope Urba, as he orchestrates it. Calmemunis seems like Peter the Hermit, basically is a dolt who gets his butt kicked. Xerius is like Alexius Comnenus (Byzantine), and the Scylvendi seem to be like Mongols—pretty much the bad*sses who go and beat the pee out of everyone. 'Cept Conphas beats 'em. And Conphas appears to be Belisarius, although he was a few centuries before the Crusades. My thoughts

**Evil Agent** · April 14th, 2006, 01:06 AM

kron: think Cnauir should be pronounced like the Germans would: Kna-yu-ir. The "i" is useless if one is supposed to say just "yur" where there is a "u" (with the dots above it). Just my simple logic. Not that the old languages gravitate around it

But you've got it wrong, kron. It's not "Cnauir", it's "Cnaiur", in which case there would be no reason to pronounce it that way.

**kron** · April 14th, 2006, 06:39 AM

Yep, my mistake

**biodroid** · July 18th, 2007, 06:41 AM

Hi all,
just wanted to find out if the book has any action. I really enjoy his style but I feel it lacks action. To me it reads almost like ASOIAF (I put ASOIAF down after 500 pages). I loved Gardens of the Moon and bought Deadhouse Gates but don't want to read it yet (don't want to get bogged down by one author) so I thought I could read the darkness that comes before. Does the pace pick up? Does it get more action packed, I like fast moving epics like Erikson.