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  1. #16
    infomaniac Expendable's Avatar
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    Leaders usually have advisors. If one of them is being unreasonable, perhaps an advisor can step in and talk them into at least trying, for the good of the people or whatever.

  2. #17
    Master Obfuscator Dawnstorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expendable
    Leaders usually have advisors. If one of them is being unreasonable, perhaps an advisor can step in and talk them into at least trying, for the good of the people or whatever.
    In this case, instead of talking her into trying (which they attempted as well), one of them pretty much ignored her right to make that decision about herself. In that scene she's pretty angry at her and wouldn't exactly be inclined to listen.

    She might have listened to the other one, though. Good thinking.

  3. #18
    Master Obfuscator Dawnstorm's Avatar
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    Progress is slow, but steady. 50k words, now.

    Two typos within one paragraph: a meeting turned into a "meating"; a current turned into a "currant". And I wasn't even hungry. O.o

  4. #19
    Filthy Assistants! Moderator kater's Avatar
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    I owe you an apology DS, I haven't been able to finish your piece yet (not due to quality issues I hasten to add ) but I'm hoping to get some reading time in soon.

  5. #20
    Master Obfuscator Dawnstorm's Avatar
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    Don't worry, take all the time you need.

  6. #21
    aka. Stephen B5 Jones MrBF1V3's Avatar
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    OK, I read yesterday(, finally), I wasn't surprised. This is my opinion, take it for what it's worth. The story is well written, the plot is engaging. I stopped at the paranoia chapter, mostly because it was 1:30AM and my eyes quit focussing.

    The only thing that really bugged me (I could get into tiny details, but that wasn't your question.) was the number of characters introduced in short order. I was having a hard time keeping track of who was who, and what this one had to do with that one. (couldn't possibly have anything to do with the time of day ) Maybe I should have kept a cast list.

    But something you wrote earlier made me think you intended to tell the story through a large number of characters, which is quite ambitious, but I think it could be done. You would have to make sure the characters are very well defined, maybe not as much by their name, but by how they fit in to the story. Setting would also be something which would need extra attention, maybe not exactly "meanwhile on a darker side of town," but something equivalent.

    I will read on, and let you know if anything else hits me.

    B5

  7. #22
    Master Obfuscator Dawnstorm's Avatar
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    Thanks for your reply.

    The character-intro-thing gets worse for a while, but then it settles into a pattern. After about 22k words, all the major characters are introduced; everything after that is function fillers (unless my story surprises me).

    Setting will be one the first edit's major focus. I'll have to make certain setting features more prominent. What you've been suggesting is that I put location markers near the front of the scenes, is that correct? Is that correct?

    Since many characters are part of the setting rather than of the cast, I may have to add some references to them into the later part of the story. That's something I haven't really thought about. Hm...

    Thanks for your comments.

  8. #23
    Edited for submission Holbrook's Avatar
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    Hi Dawnstorm.

    I have read this through once and was impressed! Now reading it through again to clear a few points in my mind.

    The amount of characters you introduce is a lot, but I feel you can counter that by enlarging the scenes that you use to introduce them/ I found I was just getting comfortable with the characters then you moved on. If the scense were a fraction longer then I think it would work better. Then again look at the beginning of Scott Bakker's trilogy, that hops all over the place.

    The Interrogation is the one scene so far in my re-read that has bugged me. You have the characters talking about the girl's interrogation, personally I feel it would work better if you had Captain Cuja observing it, have him weighting the girls answers/expressions and the guards' approach. Don't get my wrong there is nothing wrong with it as it is, just feel it could be expanded.

    Will let you know more as I go on, I will also do a third read through as well....

  9. #24
    Master Obfuscator Dawnstorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holbrook
    The amount of characters you introduce is a lot, but I feel you can counter that by enlarging the scenes that you use to introduce them/ I found I was just getting comfortable with the characters then you moved on. If the scense were a fraction longer then I think it would work better. Then again look at the beginning of Scott Bakker's trilogy, that hops all over the place.
    The scenes will get slightly longer in the re-writing on account of making them interact more with the setting; but if I make the scenes longer this is in danger of becoming... long. Which isn't really an argument I suppose...

    The Interrogation is the one scene so far in my re-read that has bugged me. You have the characters talking about the girl's interrogation, personally I feel it would work better if you had Captain Cuja observing it, have him weighting the girls answers/expressions and the guards' approach. Don't get my wrong there is nothing wrong with it as it is, just feel it could be expanded.
    Good point. This scene is too introspective. (Perhaps I didn't want to introduce yet another set of characters? Clearly, somebody would have to lead the investigations; and that's probably neither any of the guards, nor the captain.) Actually showing the interrogation would be more in keeping with the general style of the thing, too.

    Slotted for a re-write that one.

    ***

    A third read? I'm flattered.

    Thanks for your comments.

  10. #25
    aka. Stephen B5 Jones MrBF1V3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnstorm
    What you've been suggesting is that I put location markers near the front of the scenes, is that correct? Is that correct?
    I would say it depends. If you introduce a scene with "George was standing at Webwood and Flour Street." It's kind of like "The action figure was standing beside the tank.". Introduce two or more scenes like that and people will talk about you behind your back.

    If you start with "George threw his spent cigar at the base of the Flour street sign, and stomped on it as he looked up and down Webwood avenue. He was alone..." Okay, well, it's slightly better, but you get the idea.

    Characters as scenery is what I was thinking, and I think it can work. Just make sure I can tell one character from another. Also, long scenes are okay, long scenes which are boring...bad.

    Now leave me alone, I'm reading.

    B5

  11. #26
    Master Obfuscator Dawnstorm's Avatar
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    Thanks for the clarifications. (Took me a while to reply, didn't it?)

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBF1V3
    Just make sure I can tell one character from another. Also, long scenes are okay, long scenes which are boring...bad.
    The problem I have isn't with long scenes, as such; it's that many long scenes make for a long novel.

    And. This. Will. Be. A. Standalone!

    One thing I noticed is that I'm enjoying the disjointed writing a lot more than the plot-creep I'm writing now. I've just written a scene that flowed very well (writing experience; doesn't necessarily translate to reading experience). Which showed me what a chore fillers can be (not didn't have *any* fun writing those...).

    Also some characters come a lot easier than others, which makes me worry I'm unfair to the rest of the lot...

    58.6k words and growing.

  12. #27
    Edited for submission Holbrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnstorm
    Also some characters come a lot easier than others, which makes me worry I'm unfair to the rest of the lot...
    .

    Tell me about it! I hated writing Mathew and Emily in Oracle.Though towards the end, when Mathew started to show his true colours he became interesting, Emily never did. She might in the sequels, who knows, then again she might be like Doctor Zhivago's wife in Pasternak's novel, there but not there.

    Oh congrats on hitting over the half way point, aim for 100,000 and you have a 1,000 to play with....lol...

  13. #28
    Master Obfuscator Dawnstorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holbrook
    Tell me about it! I hated writing Mathew and Emily in Oracle.Though towards the end, when Mathew started to show his true colours he became interesting, Emily never did. She might in the sequels, who knows, then again she might be like Doctor Zhivago's wife in Pasternak's novel, there but not there.
    And yet they came off alright. There is hope...

    Seriously, the problem starts when you contrast them in a scene to characters you like. You want to be fair, but you know you're partial. On the other hand you can't make them the way you'd like them, because that somewhat subverts their point.

    Oh congrats on hitting over the half way point, aim for 100,000 and you have a 1,000 to play with....lol...
    Thanks.

    Hehe, I don't even know how to aim for words (I do know how to cut them, though).

  14. #29
    Embrace the Future GhostShell's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Hey, sorry i haven't posted yet, but i've been so busy i haven't even been looking at my own writing for ages.

    I really like your characters and the little quirks that sometimes show up in them. The base mystery is interesting enough to keep me reading but the disjointed style that you use is hard to get into.

    Most people enjoy getting into a character or characters for a chapter and then moving on, but i don't feel like i have anything invested in the story when i keep jumping around so fast. I understand from what, you've written earlier, why you write that way and by God you should do as you enjoy. If i can make a suggestion though: i find sometimes that writting disjointed and then later filling things out or connecting things together can keep you in the moment more and keep the excitement going.

    I'll keep reading as i get the time, but the disjointed -whether a stand alone or not- leaves you feelling like there's nothing to stop me from "putting the book down" so-to-speak. To feel invested most people have to associate with the characters (which you do well) but we need to see them for more than a fleeting glance.

    Anyway, really interesting ideas so far, i hope to get back to you ASAP and tell you what i think overall.

  15. #30
    heyyyy mistah dawnie, I'd be happy to read it, seeing everyone else raving and already being interested in it from your first post. I PMed..

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