February 28th, 2000, 06:10 PM
LoRs/Wheel of time...
I hear some good things on Wheel of Time but i also hear its easily compared to LoRs. I didnt like LoRs that much (well i liked it until i read Death Gate cycle). To me Death Gate cycle blew it away. I wanted to know from folks that have read a lot of fantasy books and who have read Death Gate cycle and Darksword trilogy (which i am currently reading).. is there a better series than those by Margret Wies and Tracy Hickman. I'm a new fantasy reader but i find that it will be hard for any series to top those two.
February 29th, 2000, 02:41 PM
Ok, you want to hear from someone who's read alot of fantasy, who has read Deathgate and Darksword series by Weis & Hickman...that's me
In general are there better series than stuff written by Weis & Hickman...no. They are my favorite. Alot of people didn't like Darksword series, I happen to love it. If you ever have a chance, you need to check out the Dragonlance series by Weis & Hickman (it is awesome as well, its closer to 'typical' Dungeons&Dragons fantasy than their other series, but the characters in Dragonlance are molded and shaped so perfectly.) I'm sure you noticed that Weis & Hickman's strong point in their writing is in that of characters and their interaction. Another great series they have written is called Rose of the Prophet. I think its just as good as Darksword, but with a bit of an Arabian feel to it.
As for Wheel of Time, it has its ups and downs, and there are several threads that discuss them in detail here. But for a quick summation of my opinions on it:
1) its long, and currently unfinished (so if you don't like waiting a year or two inbetween installments, I suggest you wait)
2) Robert Jordan packs in tons of detail, sometimes at the expense of moving the story along
3) There are about as many plot-lines in the series as there are pages, so if you like that, WoT will be for you. If you don't care for huge complex stories, then WoT may drag on for you.
4) Some people don't care for the women characters in WoT.
5) Similar to #1, but one of my biggest problems with WoT is the fact that there are tons of characters and storylines. Since I read alot of books, when the newest WoT novel comes out, I've usually forgotten half of the characters and story-lines and it can be difficult to follow along (as I've said before I simply won't take the time to reread the series each time a novel comes out to familiarize myself with everything...that would take too long).
Overall WoT is a pretty good series, but its of a different 'flavor' than Weis & Hickman. If you want to stick to what you know you like, finish up Weis & Hickman's stuff. If you want to try something similar to their story telling, but want a different author, I would suggest you give Raymond Feist a try. His Riftwar and Serpentwar sagas may be more to your liking than WoT. Feist also has that great ability to create wonderful characters. Feist comes from a role-playing background (that's where the settings for his novels came from...a role-playing game he and his friends made up and played). Weis & Hickman also come from a role-playing background.
Just my 2 cents worth.
February 29th, 2000, 06:13 PM
Aye thankx for the advice. I'm going to read Dragonlance next and then from there.. I dunno
March 13th, 2000, 05:40 AM
Weis and Hickmann?
Okay, okay, hold on a minute here. Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickmann are NOT the greatest fantasy writers out there. The Deathgate Cycle is easily their best work. Dragonlance is written primarily to those who play role-playing games. I'm told many people find problems with its heavy reliance on the game, rather than vive-versa. I am not familiar with the game, so I found the books to be rather painful to read.
Tolkien is far and away the greatest fantasy writer of all time. No writer has gone through so much trouble to make their world so three-dimensional and believeable. The ideas you have of fatasy races come from his works. It is important to give credit where credit is due. Tolkien is a writer whoese works must be studied, critiqued, and analyzed to be fully appreciated. They are more original, more real, than any writer since. They are also some of the few works of fantasy to be considered high literature.
There is a huge difference between fairy tales and fantasy literature that most modern writers have missed. The true fantasy writers are Jordan (though I agree with many of the criticisms of his work), George Martin, etc. On the fairy tale side of the coin, we have Eddings, Brooks, Goodkind, and of course, Weis and Hickmann. If these are your cup of tee, and there's nothign wrong with it if they are, check out David Eddings and Terry Brooks. Eventually, you will most likely want to graduate to something with a little more substance like George Martin.
You should know that Wheel of Time and Lord of the Rings are nothing alike. Wheel of Time is far longer, for one, and it has far more subplotsw, character development, and dialogue. But where Tolkien was direct with his story, saving the background and petty details for books dedicated soley to such details, Jordan includes them in the actual story, making the reading a bit more laborious than some authors.
So no, Wheel of time and Lord of the Rings, in both style and story, are entirely different. Tolkien's story is about the 'little guy'- the unlikely hero who wins through in the end because his cause is righteous. WoT deals with a character who quickly becomes the most powerful force on the face of the earth, and how he must deal with it. On the their most basic levels, they are entirely different.
May 22nd, 2000, 01:25 PM
\m/ BEER \m/
Weis and Hickman are pretty good. I see that many think that DEATH GATE is their best, but for some reason I could not get past the second book. Maybe I will try them again sometime.
I did love DragonLance, Chronicles, Legends and Raistlin/Soulforge and Darksword
May 22nd, 2000, 02:46 PM
Another one not quite to Tolkiens scale but still a great display of world building is Jabby Wurtz's Mistwraith books.
You get to know more and more history as you read, and you almost feel as if she could write something akin to the Silmarillion at the end.
May 23rd, 2000, 04:42 AM
Part of the reason that the books by Wurts seem so real is because, like Tolkien, it's been a lifetime of world-building. Cranking out a fantasy series in a couple of years is one thing. However, when you devote twenty-five years to developing a world, you really start to get that "feeling" of reality.
I'm now on my eighth year of world development....Not even close to done.
May 31st, 2000, 05:29 AM
I personally loved the Death Gate Cycle. It is one of my favortie series. I do however understand when people say they have a hard time getting into it. I think that the problem is because of the way they stuctured the series. In the first part of the series you pasically havae one (really two) continuous character Haplo and his dog. SO each of the first four books has a completely differnt setting and set of characters. I had a really hard time when I started each book esecially since in some of them there are quite a few chapters before Haplo shows up. the Fifth book is when the series really get going. The last three books pull everything together and we see characters and places from the begginging books. One thing that helped me get into the books was that I had played the computer game and I remember some of the things from the game although they were differnt in the actual books some thing were similar. I would recommend the series to anyone who likes fantasy.
May 31st, 2000, 01:11 PM
Spot On Ravenlock!
I was given the Deathgate game by my uncle, and loved it. When I spotted the books in the book store, I saved up all my pocketmoneyt (I was around 14 at the time) and bought all the books straight away. So instead of the first 4 books being a bit disjointed, it was like rediscovering and old friend!
Although I can't say that the Deathgate books are the best I have read, they are certainly a sentimental favourite, being the third ever fantasy series I read (After Shannara and Thomas Covenant).
May 31st, 2000, 07:33 PM
How can you possibly classify Jordan as fantasy and Goodkind as fairy, Wastra? I know you dislike Goodkind but their work is so similar that surely they're either both fantasy or they're both fairy? I would also include Feist as one of the notable fantasy writers.
And I agree that Saruman would probably prefer the likes of Eddings and Brooks to the more earthy fantasy material out there.
June 1st, 2000, 02:49 AM
Well, Giarc, I classify Goodkind as a fairy tale writer but Jordan as a fantasy writer because that's how I see them. Jordan is heavy in plot development and character development. He is a polished and talented writer who writes in a grand scale, including just enough realism to make the setting seem possible.
Keep in mind here that I've only read one book by goodkind, Wizard's First Rule. Based on THAT book, there is no comparrison between Jordan and Goodkind. Perhaps, as I've said before, Goodkind's style evolved in his later books, but I don't know that as a fact.
My only point there was to recommend authors I thought Saruman would like- as most people I HAVE MET AND SPOKEN WITH who enjoy Goodkind also enjoy books by Eddings and Brooks.
Based on WfR and Jordan's WoT, the two writers are as different as peas and corn.
June 1st, 2000, 08:23 PM
Rather than mess up the topic of this thread I'll discuss the comparisons of Jordan and Goodkind on the 'Goodkind Ugh' thread.
Most folks I've met and spoken to find it hard to separate the two in any meaningful sense.
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