June 8th, 2000, 02:50 PM
Matt and The Path Of Daggers
I would like to point out many things.
1) Matt was not in Book 8 becasue his abscence is going to be important in Book 9
2) Book 8 was not boring it was very important to the series and after reading it I finally understood some of the stuff from previous books and it started new things to write about in future books
3) How could any of you say tht R.J. sold out for money, I'm sure he dosen't even make alot of money.
4)I'm sick of people giving R.J. suggestions for his new books, He knows what he is doing and his books have been good without your suggestions
5) Even though I am sick of waiting for the next book I still want R.J. to take his time on Book 9 cause he know what is best.
If you don't agree with me than contact me on ICQ and argue with me. My number is 68557525
June 9th, 2000, 03:58 AM
Let me preface this by saying that I am a robert Jordan fan and eagerly await his next book. I agree with Rand on just about everything. This is directed to those who think Jordan is a "sell-out."
First, I thought Path of Daggers was a gruelling read, but necessary for the story. There were so many plots upon sub-plots upon loose ends that a book like this was needed to clear up those ends and re-focus the story on what is important.
Second, Robert Jordan is making BANK on this series. After a best seller is written, the author has a great deal of leeway on their contract, which is usually long-term for a series like this. You can believe that Jordan can go to his editor and publisher at any time and demand big bucks or threaten to move to a new publisher at the end of his contract. On top of this, he most assuredly gets a percentage of each book sold at cover price- not a huge percentage, to be sure, but when you think of all the books he's sold, you're talking multi-millions. Lastly, authors make a killing on autographs signings. Do you really think they would travel around to hundreds of shows a year if they weren't making money on it?
In an interview before book 5, Jordan commented that the series (it originally was planned to be One Book, then a trilogy, now many, many books) was being stretched out for several reasons. He had a grand story he wanted to tell. He wanted to make the whole story deeper than just Rand Al'Thor, because any earth-shattering event like that would be built upon countless other sub-stories that are related, but independent. lastly, he mentioned that he wanted to beat L. Ron Hubbard's record of 10 books as the longest sci-fi/fantasy series ever published and sold in the US.
So in effect, there is a case to say he sold out. But in reality, anyone who complains about something like that is a naive person. No matter how much you may want to believe otherwise, this is Robert Jordan's J-O-B. He IS in this for the money. the only difference is how important is the money to him. Anyone who complains and says different just doesn't understand how the real world works. i'm sure jordan is thinking about what he would liek to buy, when he would like to retire, where he would like to travel, what kind of lifestyle he wants to live just as much as you or I. the difference between us and him is that he makes money entertaining us. We make money doing other things. That's just the way the world works.
June 9th, 2000, 01:46 PM
Gruelling read eh? Y'know, that sums up my criticism of RJ's books past book 2 of the series. Book 3 began a slow descent into frustration for me. Midway through book 5 I'm reluctant to pick it up again. Thankfully I have an 18 hour flight that should force me to finish it! From the remarks above, I have little optimism that the flow and intensity that marked the first two books will return any time soon!
And Wastra is right, RJ is now a very, very wealthy person. There's nothing wrong with making money doing something you love.
On a completely speculative basis I suspect that maybe RJ is getting just as bored with his series as I am....why else take time out to start a new series when you have hordes of fans waiting for the next book? Of course, it could be a marketing ploy. But if so I have a lower regard for the author as a result.
June 9th, 2000, 07:26 PM
Well here's my takes to the points raised
1) Hopefully so
2) Its hard for me to really be objective about book 8 because honestly, it had been so long between the release of book 6-7-8; I lost track of so much of the story and plotlines, it was difficult for me to really get into.
3) Authors get percentages of the cover price of book sales. It is a small percentage (yet for an author of his stature I'd bet its not as bad as most authors), but it adds up quickly when you do consider the number of sales he has. Especially when you consider his series started getting very nice hardback sales early on, and has continued to get hardback sales--that's where the huge bucks can come from. Jordan's got a nice bank account, but I don't begrudge him that a bit.
There's also the tie-ins...I'm sure he got a nice paycheck for letting gaming companies make card and PC games out of WoT.
4) I don't really think RJ or many authors take suggestions to seriously. Afterall, he's a story teller, and this is his story to tell. 'Suggestions' and speculations about the next books are something the readers like to discuss; and I don't see anything wrong with those discussions.
5) Can't argue there...I'd rather wait longer for a quality book than get a less than stellar rushed novel. But that goes for any authro.
June 10th, 2000, 02:24 PM
Jordan dosen't get that much money a 10 million for the crap he is put through from fans is not worth it and at 1 million or so he has more then enough to live off of he just wants to finish his story.
For those of you who don't like certain female characters. It's true they **** but I like the fact that there are good characters that people strongly dislike.
also those who think that Moraine will not be back I just got a few things to say to the contrary they might be wrong who knows.
1) Min fewings about haven't come true yet.
2)Lanfear is back
3) Moraine is amazing I really miss her and she was really turning more human.
I wonder why the creator can't interfere with the Dark one.
I would also like to comment that all the woman in the book are arrogant and think they are so high and mighty especially Egwene I hope she is brought down a couple notches and ends up swearing fedality to Rand.
I really apreciate your reply's even if you strongly disagree. and I mada no suggestions this is just what I think will happen.
June 10th, 2000, 04:04 PM
Erm, Rand...I never said I don't understand the books: simply that Jordan's losing the plot. I don't think you want to start insulting people, Rand. It only makes your arguments weaker by association.
June 13th, 2000, 09:34 PM
To state a few things first: Yes i like Wot. No i don't think it's the greatest fantasy series ever, though.
Well. personlly i want to say that book 8 was weak, it was not as bad as i feared, but it didn't help the already overdrawn plot a bit.
Poeple claim it was a build up for book 9, Fair enough, but that's no excuse for being boring, especially as it didn't start with book 8 but book 7.
The 1300 pages of book 7 +8 contained just enough plot for ca 300 pages in my opinion, all the rest was boring repition. Is was as if RJ has written ca. 150 pages per book then has his word processor add 50 pages mor from the trash can.
I don't think RJ is deliberatly milking the series for money (though he should be rich by now), but he definatly lost his thread. Basically he overstuffed the series with minor charactors and side plots, all of which got their followings in the fandom, and now he seems unable to get rid of them.
The last two books also showed a real lack of ideas how to bring the plot to an end. Leaving Mat out could be a plot device, fair enough, but does it excuse 500 pages of emptyness in book 8? NO!
Would it be ok if book 8 was merely a build up for a GRAND FINALE? Sure, but was it? NO, at best 150 pages out of 650 were! Also the Grand FINALE seems farer away than ever.
And please don't take it personally, if you want to think that RJ is god, fine, just don't burn as heretics those who don't!
June 14th, 2000, 09:16 AM
I have been away for a week on my hols, and I am just catching up with the forum. I must say I was shocked by what appeared to be a quite venomous start to this thread. I know everyone has opinions, but they can be aired without biting peoples heads off.
I feel that I do not dare express my view on the WOT series without being "shouted" at.
Even so - I will!!!!
WOT was brill to start but went severely downhill in the last two books. I will be trying the next (WHEN it arrives!) but I am not holding my breath for a good book. I am more curious than anything to see where he is heading with the plot. I agree with Rand though on the thought that Moraine will be back somehow
June 14th, 2000, 10:09 AM
I think that Merry is right I do bite people's head off and so do others. Everyone is free to there opinion.
But if you don't like it just remember that you are not forced to read it.
I also like the fact that comments on Forums it's go to know that he reads this stuff
June 14th, 2000, 01:40 PM
For the record, I actually do like RJ's books.....although this is entirely based on the first 3 books of the series. I only read the rest because I live in hope he'll remember there's a plot in there somewhere. And also in the hope that the women characters will stop whining long enough to do something....anything! I certainly hope Moiraine does make a return....she at least kept focus on her mission. RJ, Egwene, Elayne, Nynaeve....they could all take a lesson from her