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  1. #616
    Speaks fluent Bawehrf zachariah's Avatar
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    91K in 382 pages? That's 238 words per page, you'd be using pretty large print to do that with any typical book I've seen. A thousand words is two-and-a-bit sides of computer-screen A4, using a 12-point font.

    Come and play with the Flash-Fictioneers! All the cool kids are doing it. For me, it's the acid test for any author - if they can't grab and satisfy you in a thousand words, how on earth can you trust them to do it with a full book?

  2. #617
    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatist View Post
    (SNIP)

    It's difficult for a shiny new writer like myself to get noticed and therefore get any feedback. Even if that feedback is give up you're wasting your time. If that response forms more than 50% of the total feedback it's probably good advice. Under those circumstances I would probably take it and stop work on my sequel.

    SNIP
    The best thing to do here, and likely on the other sites as well, is to simply put your website, author page on Amazon, or whatever, as a possible link. I wouldn't say that I get thousands of hit from mine, but if someone clicks it, they are clearly interested in what I've said and cared enough to click, so they already have some investment. Seems to me, those are the people who would be most likely to purchase a book (at best) or click through a couple of links and learn a bit more about my projects (at worst).

    wf

  3. #618
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    Which reminds me. I forgot to post my blog and my Amazon link on this site. Check it out if anyone is interested.

  4. #619
    pragmatist
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    Cool Thanks Guys.

    TMSO: Thanks for the 'heads up'.

    Zachariah: Thanks for the invite, I'll take a look at it.

    When it comes to the font size what I did was take some sample pages with different font's and different font sizes into work and ask the guys opinion on which I should use. They are all over 50 and I've heard them say they've given up on a book in the past because the font size is so small its given them a headache. They chose it. Remember too that my pages are quite small, 178mm x 110mm (paperback format A) so the font doesn't look large. I compared it to some other paperbacks I have that are that size and it looks pretty average. Of course, on the site where you can download it from you can choose your own font size, so that could be any number of pages.

    Warfitz45: Thanks, I'll look into that. I'll flick these guys an email as suggeted by KatG and see if they're happy with it first.

  5. #620
    Riyria Revelations Author sullivan_riyria's Avatar
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    One point that no one really brought up is that posts in a section about "writing" is going to be read by...well "writers" not "readers" so trying to self-promote here really may not produce much in the way of getting sales. Sure writers are readers like everyone else, but they also have limited reading time and usually limited budgets.

    I'm very active on sites like goodreads, and make it a point to interact there often, as others have said the best advice for a writer is to be an active member of a community by posting about all topics and mention their works in context and when appopriate (for instance, using your book as an example to illustrate a point).

    To me it's about "intention" if all you are interested in is your books, then that's not very compelling. If you "put yourself out there" and let others get to know you, they'll probably eventually get interested in looking up your books and finding out more.

    That's my philosophy at least and of the authors that I've seen also behaving in like manner - how I "discover" new books.

  6. #621
    pragmatist
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    Very Good Point Sullivan.

    I put a post in this writers section originally and asked for an opinion on my book cover, the back cover 'blurb' and the story itself. The cover, the back cover 'blurb' and the first chapter can be viewed for free on that site, I'm sure you know the one I mean. I was hoping to get an opinion or two from experienced writers as I have never done this before.

    The reason I wrote the book was mostly for fun, and to see if I could write something that would actually pass for a 'real' novel. I really enjoyed doing it. I didn't take this on as a money making project. Who the hell's heard of me? Who's going to buy it? I just wrote a story about a subject that's interested me for many years and I thoroughly enjoyed doing it.

    I have a 'Ham' radio licence and mentioned on the air I was writing a book. I didn't think it would generate so much interest. Almost every week other Hams were asking me on air how it was going and when it was going to be finished. That was that, I would never have lived it down if I hadn't finished it.

    I then showed the finished manuscript to a couple of people, they told me they thought it was actually pretty good, and that it read like any other novel. I asked them if they thought I should print it. They said "Print it". I thought ok then I'll print it, and if I'm going to print it I'll do it properly, I'll get a decent cover design, barcode, ISBN etc. So I got a limited amount printed.

    I told the Hams it was finally finished, I had some boxes of books. I was asked by a few of them to take some copies up to the radio club, which I did. I sold about a dozen, for a lot less than they cost me to print.

    One of the guys that read it said he really enjoyed it and that I should put it onto that site as an ebook. I thought if I get more than 50% positive feedback from that first dozen I would stick my neck out and do it. The feedback slowly trickled in over a few weeks as people read it. Most of the guys said they really enjoyed it, so I did, I put it on that site.

    Now that it's on there I am finding that I check regularly to see if it's moving, I just can't help it. I think anyone would. Am I getting rich, no, not a chance. Would I like to, yes of course, who wouldn't, that's why I've developed an interest in promoting it, you never know your luck. This thread is all about how to promote books isn't it.

  7. #622
    Palinodic Moderator KatG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sullivan_riyria View Post
    One point that no one really brought up is that posts in a section about "writing" is going to be read by...well "writers" not "readers" so trying to self-promote here really may not produce much in the way of getting sales. Sure writers are readers like everyone else, but they also have limited reading time and usually limited budgets.
    Oh, we've brought it up. Over and over and over again. Apparently, people don't believe us that they are wasting their time attempting it. People try to promote here in the Writing Forums because we don't allow it at all in the SFF forums, no matter who publishes you. We'll simply remove it if you try. But since we allow discussion of promotional activities and critiquing of material in the Writing Forum, we have a lot of writers come in to the forum and try to sell to their fellow writers, futile as it is. Some of them get it eventually and stay and become part of the community. Others go off looking for sites where they can promote. The "writers" in the Writing Forum are actually far more tolerant about it than the members in the SFF Forums, but overall, the members here want to have discussions, not deal with ads and requests from authors. Doing so tends to net you many more negative responses than positive ones, which doesn't help that all important word of mouth.

  8. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatist View Post
    The reason I wrote the book was mostly for fun, and to see if I could write something that would actually pass for a 'real' novel. I really enjoyed doing it. I didn't take this on as a money making project. Who the hell's heard of me? Who's going to buy it? I just wrote a story about a subject that's interested me for many years and I thoroughly enjoyed doing it.
    Glad to read that there are other people who feel exactly the same way as I do in WHY I wanted to write/publish. I did not think in commercial terms in regards to identifying my reader demographic when doing my work. Though I have been criticized for having this mindset, I just felt that it was better for me to write for myself and friends and family that understand my sense of humor instead of over contemplating on whether or not general novel readers would like it. If commercial success happens, that would be great. But right now I don't plan on quitting my day job any time soon.

  9. #624
    Riyria Revelations Author sullivan_riyria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchaser3000 View Post
    Glad to read that there are other people who feel exactly the same way as I do in WHY I wanted to write/publish. I did not think in commercial terms in regards to identifying my reader demographic when doing my work. Though I have been criticized for having this mindset, I just felt that it was better for me to write for myself and friends and family that understand my sense of humor instead of over contemplating on whether or not general novel readers would like it. If commercial success happens, that would be great. But right now I don't plan on quitting my day job any time soon.
    I spent more than ten years "writing for the market" - in other words working to produce work in a way that I thought would "sell". Having gotten no where I quit for a decade. When I returned to writing it was only on the condition that I had no intention on publishing it. That brought back "the fun" of writing to me. My wife, who knew I wouldn't pursu publishing took over and got it published - but I still find it ironic that the piece that I had zero interest in publishing made it to the market...and allowed both me and my wife not to have our day jobs.

  10. #625
    pragmatist
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    Cool

    I think you guys are absolutely right, writing for fun is the key. I would have no interest whatsoever in trying to make a career out of writing. Having to sit at a laptop and come up with a story on a regular basis would be a real chore and it would be obvious to anyone reading it.

    The feedback I've had so far has been pretty good, people that I know are telling me that what I write reads like anything else they read, the biggest complaint being my grammar, which is perfectly understandable as the only writing I do for my full time employment is emails and technical stuff.

    I had never heard of Flash Fiction until a couple of days ago when someone on ths site suggested I have a go at it. I thought I could never do it. I was watching Top Gear the day before yesterday and my mind started to wander, I picked up the laptop and started typing, surprisingly, I came up with a Flash Fiction science fiction story that I thought was ok. I showed it to someone, they thought it was ok so I put it on that site yesterday. My intention was to make it free as it's only 1050 words, but I could only figure out how to set a minimum price. I did put a warning on there to this effect.

    Yesterday it was a bit quiet in the office and my mind wandered again, and I wrote another one, this one's a bit longer, about 2000 words, I will probably do the same wth this one if the feedback is ok.

    The way I look at it is, I really enjoy writing these stories, as I said in my previous post, I am writing a sequel to my first novel, this is real novel size, 100k words +/-. I like the characters, I like the subject, and I like writing about them, after a limited print run I will put it on that site if the initial feedback is ok, just as I did with the first. If it makes a few quid great, if it doesn't it doesn't. Fortunately I really enjoy my 'proper' job, so I'm quite happy as I am. I think my mind will continue to wander, and I will keep picking up my laptop, and if people tell me it reads ok, I will put it on there. That said, I havn't had a lot of feedback, as I said before, if I get a lot of feedback and more than 50% of it is negative I'll take it off. I probably won't stop picking up my laptop though.

  11. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by sullivan_riyria View Post
    I spent more than ten years "writing for the market" - in other words working to produce work in a way that I thought would "sell". Having gotten no where I quit for a decade. When I returned to writing it was only on the condition that I had no intention on publishing it. That brought back "the fun" of writing to me. My wife, who knew I wouldn't pursu publishing took over and got it published - but I still find it ironic that the piece that I had zero interest in publishing made it to the market...and allowed both me and my wife not to have our day jobs.
    Good to hear that your hard work and experience paid off. Hope in 10 years I can quit my day job. But I'm not against remaining in obscurity if I knew my published work would eventually be commercially accepted for future generations long after I'm gone. I would hope to at least attain an underground niche following without giving up my day job. If I can get a handful of readers to be entertained by what I have written, that would be satisfaction enough.

  12. #627
    Administrator Administrator Hobbit's Avatar
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    Well, we've decided to trial something.

    There's a new area on the Forums called the Promotion Zone where members can put posts about things that are worth a look: books they've written, interviews and websites of interest, for example.

    Obviously, the posts must be Genre related and follow the SFFWorld General Guidelines in all the usual aspects.

    Let's see how this goes.

    Mark
    Mark

  13. #628
    pragmatist
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    Wink

    Mr Sullivan: Apologies, I thought Sullivan was your first name and riyria was your surname. I looked you up, you can tell I don't do much reading. I didn't comment on your good advice with regard Goodreads. Thank you for that.

    I have been on Goodreads for a while, I got a 4 star rating on there which I was delighted with, but sadly no comments.

    Hobbit: I'm surprised at this change of heart, I hope all this extra thinking you've been doing isn't my fault. Although I suspect it might be.

    I'll go and take a look at the promotion section and see what you're happy with me putting on there.

  14. #629
    Riyria Revelations Author sullivan_riyria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchaser3000 View Post
    Good to hear that your hard work and experience paid off. Hope in 10 years I can quit my day job. But I'm not against remaining in obscurity if I knew my published work would eventually be commercially accepted for future generations long after I'm gone. I would hope to at least attain an underground niche following without giving up my day job. If I can get a handful of readers to be entertained by what I have written, that would be satisfaction enough.
    There was a time (during my ten year hiatus) that I thought the ten years of writing had been a total and utter waste of time. Now, with twenty-twenty hindsight, I can see that that time was actually helping me to perfect my style and determine my own voice.

    When we finally decided to publish The Riyria Revelations, Robin (my wife), who was doing the "promoting end" asked me, "So how many books do I need to sell to 'be a success'?" I told her 50 people who didn't know who I am had to buy them. We just crossed 100,000 books sold (don't know across how many people though as a I have a fewt titles) but I guess she surpassed that goal.

    My new goal...one that I doubt I will ever see...is that one day I'll be in a public area (a train, plane, waiting room, etc) and see someone who I don't know reading one of my books...if I ever see that - then I'll be truly impressed.

  15. #630
    Riyria Revelations Author sullivan_riyria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbit View Post
    Well, we've decided to trial something.

    There's a new area on the Forums called the Promotion Zone where members can put posts about things that are worth a look: books they've written, interviews and websites of interest, for example.

    Obviously, the posts must be Genre related and follow the SFFWorld General Guidelines in all the usual aspects.

    Let's see how this goes.

    Mark
    Nice idea!!

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