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  1. #16
    Saturn Comes Back Around Evil Agent's Avatar
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    For the record, SoS is one book in North America, but split in 2 in the UK.

  2. #17
    Rogue Warrior
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    Searched for threads, thought this was as good as any, but can anyone spoiler tag what happened to Tyrion at the end of SOS, I remember most of it, but there is a piece or two missing from my memory.
    Thank ya kindly

  3. #18
    Lord of the Wild Hunt Mithfânion's Avatar
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    Spoilers, obviously.

    From wikipedia:

    With the loss of his champion, Tyrion was declared guilty and placed in a Black Cell in the third sublevel of dungeons in Maegor's holdfast (where Ned Stark had been kept). However, late on the first night of this captivity, Tyrion was secretly freed from his prison cell by his brother Jaime and a reluctant Varys. During their escape, when Tyrion thanked Jaime, Jaime revealed that he had owed this to Tyrion. In his explanation, Jaime recalled that their father had made him lie about Tysha being a prostitute, and that she was exactly what she seemed: a crofter's daughter who had genuinely loved Tyrion. Jaime suggested that Tywin rationalized this brutality and deception by saying that Tysha was so poor and to wed a Lannister was tantamount to whoring herself for the family's wealth. This news devastated Tyrion unlike any insult or act of aggression he had suffered at his family's hands. Tyrion abandoned Jaime, promising retribution if they ever met again. To hurt Jaime, he also revealed that Cersei was "a lying whore" who was "****ing Lancel, Osmund Kettleblack, and Moon Boy for all I know," and (falsely) claimed that he had indeed poisoned Joffrey. This shocked Jaime and may have lead to the first significant doubts and feelings of contempt that Jaime eventually began to feel for Cersei (as evident in A Feat for Crows). Before leaving the castle, Tyrion visited his father's room via the secret tunnels and, to his horror, found Shae naked and alone in his father's bed, wearing his chain of the office of the Hand around her neck. When Tyrion confronted her, she begged his forgiveness for betraying and humiliating him at the trial. But Tyrion, full of hatred, strangled her (with the Hand's chain) nonetheless. He then set out to look for his father. Before leaving the bedchambers, Tyrion took a crossbow from the wall and loaded it. He found his father sitting on the privy and confronted him (aiming the crossbow at him), demanding that he tell him what became of Tysha, his wife and love. Tywin asserted that he had not killed her but sent her away with her earnings. Tywin referred to her repeatedly as a "whore", leading Tyrion to warn his father that his next use of that word would mean his death (even then Tywin would not take his son seriously, saying "You do not possess the courage"). After Tyrion's repeated efforts to learn Tysha's whereabouts, Tywin said dismissively that she had gone "Wherever whores go." With that Tyrion fired at his father's chest just as he began to stand from the privy, and the bolt stuck him in the bowels. With his last words, he disowned Tyrion as his son. Tyrion escaped the way he had come, to a ship that awaited him on the river, which Varys had prepared for him.

    Tyrion has since fled across the narrow sea, his motives unknown even to himself. In an excerpt from A Dance with Dragons on Martin's website it is revealed that Tyrion is currently in Pentos and is staying with Illyrio Mopatis.[2] In this excerpt, Tyrion somewhat rhetorically asks several characters: "Where do whores go?" It is implied that his thoughts are still with Tysha, as his question appears to relate to his father's final explanation of her whereabouts.

  4. #19
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    Thanks Mith, Yeah I could not remember why Tyrion was in prison. The Joffrey thing, lol. He killed Shae too, right? The Wikipedia says strangled her with the Hands necklace, but I didn't remember him finishing her off. Tywin and Shae got what they deserved. Still remember and love that last comment about Tywin and "gold".
    God, I should reread these.

  5. #20
    Humble Grifter Luya Sevrein's Avatar
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    Devan is the Warden of the West, as said in one of Jaime's chapters while he waits outside Riverrun. Not Kevan. I beliee Cersei wants to take the Rock once Tommen is old enough to run his own affairs.

  6. #21
    Okay, here's a stupid question. I've got 75 pages left of Game of Thrones (so I guess spoiler alert) and I've just read the part where they kill Eddard Stark. I am flaberghasted. I know I heard how that's what GRRM does, but I considered ES the main character. I know, all the Starks, and Tyrion are "main characters," but in my head, ES was it. I don't know if I can finish the series knowing that he's not living. Anyway, I posted here to ask, did he really just kill off Eddard Stark? Is that a good enough excuse to not finish the series? Couple that with the spoilers I've accidently read about Catelyn, Robb and Joffrey dying, I'm not so sure I can finish the book. I don't want to waste my time if I'm not going to get a happy ending. Yikes!

  7. #22
    Registered User Gary XI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hyperchord24 View Post
    Okay, here's a stupid question. I've got 75 pages left of Game of Thrones (so I guess spoiler alert) and I've just read the part where they kill Eddard Stark. I am flaberghasted. I know I heard how that's what GRRM does, but I considered ES the main character. I know, all the Starks, and Tyrion are "main characters," but in my head, ES was it. I don't know if I can finish the series knowing that he's not living. Anyway, I posted here to ask, did he really just kill off Eddard Stark? Is that a good enough excuse to not finish the series? Couple that with the spoilers I've accidently read about Catelyn, Robb and Joffrey dying, I'm not so sure I can finish the book. I don't want to waste my time if I'm not going to get a happy ending. Yikes!
    My advice is to finish the book and if you don't want to pick up the next you'll be in the extreme minority

  8. #23
    Humble Grifter Luya Sevrein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hyperchord24 View Post
    Okay, here's a stupid question. I've got 75 pages left of Game of Thrones (so I guess spoiler alert) and I've just read the part where they kill Eddard Stark. I am flaberghasted. I know I heard how that's what GRRM does, but I considered ES the main character. I know, all the Starks, and Tyrion are "main characters," but in my head, ES was it. I don't know if I can finish the series knowing that he's not living. Anyway, I posted here to ask, did he really just kill off Eddard Stark? Is that a good enough excuse to not finish the series? Couple that with the spoilers I've accidently read about Catelyn, Robb and Joffrey dying, I'm not so sure I can finish the book. I don't want to waste my time if I'm not going to get a happy ending. Yikes!
    ES is a main character in book one, and then others take over. He becomes a stand-point for the world around him beggining to lose all honor and structure and so on and so forth. He is brought up a lot in loving memory and I have a feeling his death means something.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by hyperchord24 View Post
    Okay, here's a stupid question. I've got 75 pages left of Game of Thrones (so I guess spoiler alert) and I've just read the part where they kill Eddard Stark. I am flaberghasted. I know I heard how that's what GRRM does, but I considered ES the main character. I know, all the Starks, and Tyrion are "main characters," but in my head, ES was it. I don't know if I can finish the series knowing that he's not living. Anyway, I posted here to ask, did he really just kill off Eddard Stark? Is that a good enough excuse to not finish the series? Couple that with the spoilers I've accidently read about Catelyn, Robb and Joffrey dying, I'm not so sure I can finish the book. I don't want to waste my time if I'm not going to get a happy ending. Yikes!
    I cant even imagine what a happy ending could be for this series! (if we even get there...but let's not get started on that)

  10. #25
    So did anyone else feel cheated that he killed off Eddard?

  11. #26
    Making it so. Orbison's Avatar
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    Surprised? Yes. Cheated? No. It was, forgive the pun, a stark reminder that no-one's invincible, not even main characters.

  12. #27
    Killing off Eddard Stark was the clincher for me. I was thinking he probably wasn't reaaaally dead, but I thought wrong. All in all it was/is a pretty bold move for a story and I like that someone was willing to break free of the standard. I don't have a problem with a story that doesn't have a happy ending. In fact, I occasionally prefer them.

  13. #28
    I still can't see why people were surprised with Eddard Stark's death. I mean, it was really predictable. He was a mentor character, like Leto Atreides or Obi-wan Kenobi, and such characters usually die in the first installment.

  14. #29
    Making it so. Orbison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lfex View Post
    I still can't see why people were surprised with Eddard Stark's death. I mean, it was really predictable. He was a mentor character, like Leto Atreides or Obi-wan Kenobi, and such characters usually die in the first installment.
    And then you can argue they don't usually die, but those you listed were merely exceptions. The list of "mentor characters" that don't die is infinitely larger than the list of those that do. Furthermore, I'd hesitate to call Eddard Stark a "mentor character". He was paternal, yes, but not a mentor.

  15. #30
    Humble Grifter Luya Sevrein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbison View Post
    And then you can argue they don't usually die, but those you listed were merely exceptions. The list of "mentor characters" that don't die is infinitely larger than the list of those that do. Furthermore, I'd hesitate to call Eddard Stark a "mentor character". He was paternal, yes, but not a mentor.
    Perhaps in a less literal sense. He is responsible for Jon's styles of rule and honor-before-anything attitudes, as well as his regrets with Ygrite and so on and so fourth. He is responsible for Robb's battle tactics and attitude which were going well - the guy fell to his honour and reliance on the rules. He was a heroic figure to Sansa, giving her all she needed to believe that the Knights in her tales were all honorable, loving men like her Father. Arya remembers him and things he says to her and his Gods and practises frequently, as does Bran. He has an effect on Cat and Benjen too I'm sure, and even people who hated him.

    Aside from that he also has a more metaphorical mentoring side. As I said before, the honour and structure seemed to drain from Westeros as he died. Certainly from the Court.

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